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What is wrong with The Grumble?


PFG, Picture Framing God
What criticisms do you have about The Grumble. How about your thoughts on ways to improve it.



PFG, Picture Framing God
Well, I for one wish there was more discussion of selling Museum Glass.

Jeff Rodier

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Maybe a "Tag & Release Program".

Those with paid affiliations to vendors and manufacturers should be tagged with that corporate logo in their tag line and released to discuss products with the affiliation disclosure being mandatory.

Doesn't matter to me because I know the players but based on other threads it would be helpful to many.


PFG, Picture Framing God
Paul, I'll bite on that one. You sell whatever you WANT to sell. If you want to sell museum glass but you are a little shaky on the price of the stuff, that should not be a problem. All you do is work up your entire price for the completed job, then give your customer that price. Mrs. Jones, your beautiful highlighted and signed Kinkade print, framed in this stunning gold frame and triple mats, including full conservation with the proper museum glass will be $783.00.

She will say, are you out of your tree? I'm not spending $783.00 to frame a stupid picture. You take out one of the mats, give her a new quote. Keep changing the frame design without taking out the museum glass, until you reach a price she is satisfied with. Mrs Jones, your stupid picture with a single white mat and a genuine artists black metal frame, and the proper glass will be $435.00.

See, piece of cake. OK, back to the subject of the thread.



SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Well you cannot improve on what needs improving because it would be against human nature.

Other than that I wouldn't change a thing.


PFG, Picture Framing God
What criticisms do you have about The Grumble.
None. Nada. Zip. I love it just the way it is, with all it's personalities, quirks, encouragements, "passionate discussions", humor, resources, information, how-to's, how-not-to's, fit-pitchings, etc.

Can't we just leave it alone?


Angry Badger
It ain't broke...

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I would love to see the voluntary use of real names, but would not want it to become mandatory.


SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I would love to see the voluntary use of real names, but would not want it to become mandatory.
But that's how it is right now! Some use their real names as userids, some use an alias as their userid but include their real name in their signature, some include an email address and/or web address in their profile from which a real name can often be determined, and some don't disclose their identity. It's voluntary!


PFG, Picture Framing God
Yes, Paul. I also like to see a person's name either as their log on name or as a signature but, as you said, it's voluntary.

My apologies to Captain English, wherever she is.


PFG, Picture Framing God
I've always said it wouldn't hurt to put in a pool and maybe a cash bar........................


PFG, Picture Framing God
Built in spellcheker


PFG, Picture Framing God
Beer dispenser.
Preferably with real ale, or something really tasty from a microbrewery! :)

Oh, and some sort of glossary for those of us who don't speak 'Merican! ;)


SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Built in spellcheker
I second that one.

Also, how about a list of simple rules for newbies on the grumble.

Such as: With your first or second post, don't flame someone with 2,000 to 4,000 posts.

Don't write a 500 word essay with no commas, paragraphs, or spaces. My eyes always glase over halfway through these epic posts.

Put the appropriate icon at the end of your post, so we can tell whether you are being serious, sarcastic, or funny.

Be nice. Treat people like you would like to be treated.


CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Hiding my name is number one for me.

If you're really Sherlock Holmes like you might figure it out on your own. If you need a hint "Mikesshop" might get you started. :D Okay you beat it out of me.


Tom Reigle

Hey guys,

There's a handy spellchecker right there on every post window!! It's hanging up there on the upper right hand corner with the "ABC" and a checkmark under the letters.

Ya just can't get 'em any handier than that!!!

Keith L Hewitt

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
ThanksPaul N and Tom! - gee.... you can always learn something useful on TG!


PFG, Picture Framing God
I'd like to be able to close attachments (photos) without closing the site.

No biggie though - the back button is still just a click.

Paul N

In Corner
ThanksPaul N and Tom! - gee.... you can always learn something useful on TG!

Google Toolbar and Spellchecker is useful in almost any website that needs data to to be, and spell-checked.
It has lots of useful buttons, beside the Spell-checker (Mail, Google Earth, Google Maps, etc).


SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Something is wrong when the opinion of one opinionated no-longer-a-framer person sways enough influence to completely wreck another person's day. (Thankfully not their whole existence, just that day...) And no, I won't expound on that...and it is my only grumble with the Grumble.

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
You know your day is ruined if...

:) If a customer calls and cancels an order, that could ruin your day.

If you get trigger happy while using the v-nailer and accidently fire an extra nail into a frame, pushing the first nail through the top of the frame like an unwanted hood ornament. That could ruin your day.

If you read your name in the obituaries, that would definately ruin your day.

Discovering you have a terminal inability to communicate in the first person, could ruin somebody's day, but I won't elaborate.

However, if reading a post on an internet chat forum can ruin someone's day, then someone has got more serious problems. :)

Acrylic Queen

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I like the grumble and enjoy reading the questions and the answers. I just lurk around to see if there are any questions I can answer or any way I can be helpful to our industry. There is no other forum where framers are so willing to allow suppliers to make comments or offer help. I like that you (the framers) can speak freely about what works and doesn't work and ask questions even about suppliers and usually get answers. Also this is FUN and no one takes themselves too seriously.

Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
However, if reading a post on an internet chat forum can ruin someone's day, then someone has got more serious problems. :)
Yeah, cyber-bullying never works does it?

Many if not all of us in some way or another are "damaged goods".... and just knowing a screen name or even having met them a couple of times at a Grumble dinner in Vegas, doesn't qualify anyone to "know" the others well enough to go kicking them around. But does seem to have become a national pass-time lately that has been reflected here on the grumble.

We need more kitty and dog threads. We need some vacation treads with pictures; even if all you did was visit 200 miles away for three days..... (I need some ideas for a cheap vacation soon, I'm burning out...) Natalya! What's in Nebraska to come see?


True Grumbler
more pictures. i haven't figured out how to post pictures of what i'm grumbling about yet but my favorite part is when i can see the project someone is writing about or the inside of their store, workshop, etc. other than that i wouldn't change a thing.:thumbsup:

Mary M

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Amen to the completed profile. I am particularly interested in the who/where/what info: who are you?/where are you located?/what do you do? ( ie-framer/supplier/gallery, etc.).

Knock off the sniping and back-biting. I get tired of having to skim through a bunch of ego-junk to get to the good stuff.

I promise to keep my post/essays under 500 word with paragraph breaks in between every three sentences.

Other than that, I wouldn't change the Grumble one bit! :)


SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I have been on a forum where newbies are granted very limited access to the board until they complete a proper introduction.

And ditto to incomplete profiles. At least put something on there, even if you are as boring and unimportant as me. I got no website, no business of my own, no notoriety of any sort, but I'll be goldarned if I am going to be anonymous!

And if you google my username anything you find will be me. Myspace, whatever. It's all me. It is just another part of me. But I'll sign off with my real name, anyway.



PFG, Picture Framing God
Ditto on filling out the profiles. I can't believe how many people don't fill out anything. It is nice to have some idea of who you are talking to. You are taken more seriously if you offer basic info. Nobody is asking for addresses and SS#'s. Would be nice to know where you are located and maybe a name to suggest what your gender might be. It is the polite thing to do.

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
This has turned into a real good thread. When John started it, I thought it was done with tongue in cheek as a response to the PPFA thread.

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'm a bit surprised that so many people are so critical about spelling. Just as long as you can easily figure out the word of course.

I figure most spelling errors are just typos and rarely let it bother me. We shouldn't hold people to the same standards that we would a book or newspaper. I'd rather hear people's ideas rather than have someone not post because they're afraid they'll get a bad grade in spelling. But, that's just me.

Paul Cascio
Former Spelling Champeon


Angry Badger
What's in Nebraska to come see?
Get in a car and drive Nebraska Route 2 from Lincoln to Carhinge in Alliance. Then go to Crawford and look up my sister and her husband...check out Ft. Robinson. You will not be disappointed.

Sorry, Edit: Route 2 is worth the trip even if you don't get to meet my kin.


PFG, Picture Framing God
'In a man's letters, his soul lies open' or something like - I read somewhere once - probably one of many books of quotations I have.

I'd say leave the spellchecker out - anyone can minimise the page and go to word - type in the problem word/sentence and see if it gets underlined - red for spelling; green for grammar.

You can tell a lot about a person by their handwriting/spelling/grammar/punctuation - we can't see the handwriting so let's leave in the rest.

There's a few here that I only need to see the handwriting of to confirm are total psychos!

David N Waldmann

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I'm surprised there have been no mention of Firefox yet, which works like Word or WordPerfect with red underlines on any site (except maybe some funky ones not using conventional coding). You can even add words to your dictionary, like "underpinner".


PFG, Picture Framing God
You do not need to be albe to slepl as lnog as you get the fsirt and the lsat letetr of ecah wrod clrolrtcly. Yuor scbucsoniuos wlil tansrtaie it for you. Try to get the cceorrt nmebur of lertets in each word, but it is not ctaicril.



SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

If you are going to Nebraska then you need to stop in Paxton and go to Ole's Steakhouse and Bar. This place is like a museum of game, hundreds of stuffed animals from around the world, you name it, the founder has hunted it.

Don't go to the restaurant/gas station right off of I-80, go to the original in town, well worth the stop.


Great food and you can play Keno while you eat

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

... Ole's Steakhouse and Bar. This place is like a museum of game, hundreds of stuffed animals from around the world, you name it, the founder has hunted it.
If my name was Baer, I think I'd want to stay as far away from that place as possible. Or at least just use the drive-thru. :)

Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
This place is like a museum of game, hundreds of stuffed animals from around the world, you name it, the founder has hunted it.
Oh yes. This would be exactly the place I would take my wife. . . the woman who thinks PETA's politics are just a little to Republican for her tastes. ..... when it comes to opposites attract.... we're the rule.

But if anyone thought I was joking.... I'm not... I'm taking notes. And this is another great reason I love the G. Nebraska... who knew? :thumbsup:

And isn't that near the Dakotas?

Amy McCray

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hey Baer! As long as you're in Nebraska, you may as well head on up and over to Wis. The brandy slush is waiting in the freezer. Not to mention some other goodies. As for the Grumble . . . leave it be. It's just some of the people on it that need a slap once in awhile. Just joking - really!


MGF, Master Grumble Framer
If you view your post in the advanced post window it will show all of your spelling errors.


SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I love TG as it is, although some of the boards I'm on have browse-able galleries; that might be worth looking into. Otherwise, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


WOW Framer
Having only just found you all, I haven't
been around long enough to know the cycles
of what happens here.
So, I'll just give you my impression, as a new

It seems like a great resource.
I am relieved to know that there are people
out there who will share their experiences
and answer my questions to the best
of their ability.
For the most part, there's an attitude of

It would be easy for a longtime expert to
develop an impatient attitude with framers
who show they still have a lot to learn.
There seems to be little of that here.
This site really does need to be a place
where anyone can come and feel welcomed,
or at least fairly heard.

It seems to be a combination of both an
open forum for discussion and a club of
longtime contributors involved in their
own web of relationships.
I have come away from a few threads
looking to see if my legs were still hooked
to my body. So many snarks in the water!

I tend to think of arrogance as the one
sure sign of secret insecurity, and it seems
a few people could really stand to learn this.
I hope these guys have low blood pressure,
because if they don't, they're headed for strokes.
I can just see them sitting at home, fuming,
thinking of the next great self-defense.

But, being new, it's hard to know what's what.
Someone might be conflict-oriented or they
might just be a good guy who is hacked off
after years of being treated badly.
Time will tell.
It did take me a few minutes to figure out
your 'beating a dead horse' icon.
I was sitting there thinking, "Why do they spank
donkeys here?" At least the little guy in
the picture wasn't wearing leather....

What else?
The only time I've wished people had to disclose
who they are is when I read the threads about
the BB's. I am concerned about how to respond
to the one building in our town.
Someone will throw out a comment about
them here and there's an instant dogpile.
People acting bored, numbed with the idea,
whatever. I wonder, are they acting this way
because they really think that, or do they
work for these stores and are trying
to make his comments seem worthless?
It's hard to tell.

Whatever the case, this should be the one place
where any picture framer can have a voice.
If that means employees of big box stores,
then so be it.

I was surprised to see so little offered in
the area for 'Helpful Framing Tips".
Is it because you all know everything already?
Are people unwilling to share something that
might benefit another framer?
What's up with that?

Sorry this took up so much space, but it's
an honest answer to your question.

I am really glad to have found this site.
It seems to have a lot to offer.
And I really enjoy the fact that people can
share light-hearted things too.
Life is hard, and we all need a place to
laugh and be listened to.
Last edited:

Paul N

In Corner

Very good observations from someone relatively new here.:thumbsup:

As every where else in life, whether a shop with a few employees or huge conglomerate in corporate America, there are people with big egos and big attitudes here. One learns to smell them from a mile away after a few days on the forum.

Some old timers here think the world and all other framers owe them an apology and a crown, just because they have been here longer than anyone else.

And there are others who have been in business say 20 years and cannot tolerate new framers who are as (or even more successful) than they are, and those are the ones one has to be wary off and their posts portray a needy, whiny nature. Today is a good example, by the way!! And those are the ones who might be PMing others about you as we speak.

Among the good, the bad and the ugly, I personally have learned to appreciate posts by people who are selfless in their professional advice (Bob Carter, Jim Miller, Rob Markoff, John Ranes, et al) who are truly admirable in their efforts to help fellow framers, and those others who post interesting advice or are just fun to have on the Grumble. I either ignore /skip other flotsam, whiny posts.

Life is too short to be spent pondering over or reading all other bandwidth sucking posts.


CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Life is too short to be spent pondering over or reading all other bandwidth sucking posts.
So true, so true hahaha I had to make it a lil bigger :D :popc:

-edit haha poop.. top of the page hahaha cr@p is edited haha


WOW Framer
Maybe there could also be an archive
for the framing tips section?
I know a person can do a search there for a
particular subject, but that leaves out
everything else they might not be thinking of.
And those 'new' ideas can be the most useful.

You're all pretty generous with your feedback,
especially since the same questions have
probably been asked here a zillion times.
I'd rather look up the past answers first
than ask for the zillion and oneth time.

(Don't look up oneth in your dictionary.
It probably aint a real animal.)

It's late and this girl is tired.

Tom Reigle

"I was surprised to see so little offered in
the area for 'Helpful Framing Tips".
Is it because you all know everything already?
Are people unwilling to share something that
might benefit another framer?
What's up with that?"

We used to do alot of that kind of posting, Shayla, and somehow, that habit has drifted away. It may be that the old timers got tired of posting the same things over and over or maybe it is just an adjustment in the way people do things and react to problems that they encounter in their jobs. We used to have people ask about time saving tips or what to do with left over moulding or how to do a certain procedure that would be faster than the way they are using, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

I agree with you, sections like the handy tips of the trade really do need to be used more often, not for the benefit of us old fogeys, but for you newer framers who haven't had the problems or experiences that we have had throughout our careers to know how to solve those problems without spending a pot full of money.

My suggestion is to ask questions about anything that bothers you! I always told my students that the only really "dumb" question was one that you had and failed to ask about. Nobody is a mind reader here and there are many who have all sorts of ideas to share if they knew that the ideas would be helpful to newer people who haven't seen them before.

Case in point, I posted some photos of floor pedestals for joining frames that I have been building for many years out of scrap foamcore and glue on another thread. I don't know if anyone appreciated them or had a use for the idea but I have posted that idea so many times that I get to feeling I am boring everyone with the repetition of these little tips.

Ask questions and I'll bet you'll get some of those tips that you are looking for! :thumbsup:
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