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What is wrong with The Grumble?

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by JRB, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. JRB

    JRB PFG, Picture Framing God

    These little tips used to get a lot of activity and interest, that is until they were given a forum of their own. Most people just go straight to the main forum, maybe warped, or business issues. I do not think I even glance at the other forums. It's a shame, the subjects on those forums got so much interest while they were on the main forum, that they were given a forum of their own, now no no one is interested anymore.

    I guess I could make that suggestion, close those forums and let those subjects back onto the main forum. It would probably help a whole lot.

  2. Pat Kotnour

    Pat Kotnour SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I think it is important for some of the more veteran framers to remember that a lot of the new members of the G have not been framing for 20 or 30 years and come here looking for help. Too often I find myself wishing that I could tell a new framer to call me because I have a much easier way of doing the job than the advise they were given. New framers should never be made to feel that they can't ask a question....even if an old timer believes it is something they should already know. There have been times when there is advise given here on the G that I don't even understand, and I've been framing for 15 years.

    From what I have seen from speaking to thousands of framers over the years is that most new framers don't even know the terminology and won't be impressed by your knowledge when they don't even understand what you are talking about. The KISS mentality is always the best way to go when dealing with new framers, and this site is only as good as the information being given out by those in the know, and the ability for those who are not to understand it.

    Every framer on this site who considers themselves an expert would be wise to remember that you were once a newby and didn't gain the knowledge you have aquired to be considered an expert...all by yourselves.

    As the saying goes, "No one goes his way alone, what you bring into the life of others will come back into your own". I'm not sure who first said that, but it really hits the nail.

    Be kind. Life is short.....but can be very long and miserable if you spend it looking for a fight.
  3. blackiris

    blackiris SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I think the grumble is a great forum. Very imformitive!

    One thing maybe to change or if someone can explain to me is......Why I keep getting logged off the forum if I leave it for a little bit. It's really annoying. :shrug:

    I wish people were nicer in their posts and realize that everyone has questions and opinions. I personally am new to the whole owning your own business thing and I have LOTS of questions.
    My personal goal is to post Nicole's dumb question of the week.

    I think a lot more people would post if they wern't affraid of people zinging them from the get go.

    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
  4. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer


    When you log in, check the little box that says "remember me". Then you'll never have to log in again. It sets a cookie on your pc, to remember who you are.

  5. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    I posted a thread on how to post pics called "Posting pictures" on the G, a search should bring it up.
    I can't figure out how to do colored lettering or different text.

    I think profiles are good too.

    But my biggest grumble is the overall look of the site, lite grey uuuggh, mix it up a bit.
  6. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    There have been some really great comments on this thread, and via private mail. My understanding/personal take:
    • Tensions have been a bit high lately, due to economic conditions. People are especially tense/edgy.
    • A minority has been "sniping" at others with critical remarks and somewhat personal attacks, bringing down the overall quality of the exchange; and stifling participation.
    • While the forum welcomes people who must remain anonymous because their employers prohibit them from participating on forums (big box employees, sales reps, etc) - it would be great if folks who have no such restriction would strive to complete their personal user profiles. It helps us get to know you better.
    • We should strive to promote a welcome environment, where the community is more supportive of its newest members. Some feel that seasoned grumblers could be more patient, helpful, and courteous to new folks and their questions.
    • Each and every one of us has a personal responsibility to lead by example. "Do onto others......" etc We have to appreciate that we were new once, too.
    The grumble has had a profound influence on the industry, and connects it in a way that nothing else has in the past. If you havent thanked Bill lately, please do. Bill and the sponsors make the forum possible.

    In my personal opinion, the free exchange of knowledge and ideas has been the reason for this forum's tremendous success. We're all here to attack and digest important/common issues, but NOT each other.

    We can ALL try a bit harder to make sure the grumble remains a helpful and friendly place for current and potential framers. When folks are threatening to leave (or afraid to post) because of a few bad apples, I think it's time to step back and look at the bigger picture.

    I feel that we can accomplish more by working together positively, to achieve our common goals. I think this is more important now than ever.

    If you're a new user, don't be shy - jump right in!

  7. CAframer

    CAframer SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    A1. When editing, there are buttons in the menu bar that allow selection of font style, size, and color, as well as other editing functions such as bullets, numbering, indentation and the like.

    A2. Go to User CP, Edit Options, Skin ... there are several different choices. You can also access the skin choice at the bottom left of the main index page.
  8. DVieau2

    DVieau2 PFG, Picture Framing God

    First: I would like to have more time to edit or even delete a post. I tend to read and post to the grumble on the fly and it's easy to be distracted. If you come back an hour later you can't make a change.

    More time to edit might also temper some of the disagreeable exchanges.

    Second: Could someone clarify how postings on the grumble may or may not end up a Google search. One reason I don't sign my full name and business is that I don't want every post to show up on a Google search.

    This may also be a reason people don't fill out their profile.

  9. Pat Kotnour

    Pat Kotnour SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    What I do is write the post in my normal "Write" e-mail. This corrects spelling and you can edit as much as you want without posting it. Then, I will hold a post for a couple of days before I copy it and paste it into the Grumble thread it is pretaining to. This gives me time to think about what I have written. There have been times after re-reading my post a few times, I delete it.
  10. CAframer

    CAframer SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    A workaround for the time limit is to compose offline in your favorite editor (e.g. Word), then cut and paste.

    I believe all posts are subject to being crawled by search engines. In fact a really handy consequence is that you can use Google to do a Grumble site specific search. So say for example you want to find "ap" somehwere in The Grumble ... the Grumble's native search will not allow a search of less than 3 characters, but Google allows a site search ... in this example you would type into Google "ap site:thegrumble.com" and it would return all related entires but only from the Grumble.
  11. Mitch

    Mitch <span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><

    Some thoughts

    This grumble has gotten too big! Too many people with too many suggestions. Back in '98 I could read the grumble in 10 minutes then get back to work. in the early 2000's I could harvest a few good ideas every once in a while. Not much lately. Some grumblers of late have different agenda's. The expression and defense of their own ego is more important than posting ideas or information .

    I have four suggestions

    1. Grumblers should not take another grumblers suggestions personal.

    2. Grumblers don't often read well. They sometimes jump to conclusions. and they have different perspectives because of their own experiences and circumstances. Their perspectives do not match yours and they often assume that yours are the same as theirs.

    3. Grumblers often need to take their own advice.

    4. Often times the best answer to a post is no answer. Get on with your life and let the post die.

    5. Bonus suggestion.
    Drinking and grumbling can be dangerous

    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
  12. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    So, is this last one based on personal experience Mitch?

    I agree with your whole list.
  13. Mitch

    Mitch <span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><


    "So, is this last one based on personal experience Mitch?"

    Are you thinking that I have so few posts because I have been following my own advice?

    Nope, just an observation.
  14. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    As far as Grumble posts being searchable, there is a way for the administrators of this forum to set the security on it so nothing is searchable by an outside search engine. I'm on another forum for professional photographers that uses the same software and also requires members to register using their real names. It was a really big issue for some of them when they found out their posts were popping up on Google searches. They didn't want their customers or their competitors who weren't members of the forum reading them. We had quite a few heated discussions on the issue till the administrators were able to set the security so nothing is searchable.

    Personally, I'm not too concerned about my posts on the main forum, but there is stuff in Warped I probably wouldn't want just anyone reading! :eek:
  15. j Paul

    j Paul PFG, Picture Framing God

    The Grumble (because of the community) has become, a living, breathing thing. It has it's ups and downs, but eventually everything is sorted out. I believe whatever bumps there are, from time to time are far less important, than what we all receive from being here.

    Thanks to all who make the Grumble work.
  16. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I would like any newbies on this forum to understand that they too are experts in some area even if it isn't directly related to framing. Everyone comes to this forum with life experiences. The technical aspects of framing are important but alone they do not make for a successful framing operation or a happy life.

  17. Julie-Tulie

    Julie-Tulie MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    It was mentioned earlier about some newer or less experienced framers having troubles with framing terminology... so why not have a sort of "Framing Dictionary" of those terms.

    Just a thought...
  18. TessaE

    TessaE CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

  19. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I wish posts were concise. You may have a good point, maybe even a great point, but if it goes on for more that 10 lines, You've lost me.

    As Steve Martin said in Planes, Trains. Have a point!
  20. RParrish

    RParrish PFG, Picture Framing God

    Green Lettering Alert

    Threads like this;)
  21. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Not all newbies to the Grumble are also newbies to framing. Some have been framing for years and have just discovered or been referred to the G. It's probably not a good idea to assume every newbie who posts a question knows nothing about framing. The new person may have more years of experience than you. On the flip side, introductions and complete profiles on the part of the new person can help the veterans get to know you and find out what level you are at.
  22. pictureframingpro

    pictureframingpro MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Because of this thread, I now have a completed profile. I am not an owner of the shop, I am however the only employee and am concidering buying the business. Im just scared I guess. Framing is my passion, and I love all the information that I have read here good and bad. It is a very good resource. I would not change a thing.... 10 years framing, 2 weeks on the G.
  23. D_Derbonne

    D_Derbonne PFG, Picture Framing God

    Welcome Lauri!
    Unless the shop you are working in is a flourishing business then it's good to be scared.
  24. pictureframingpro

    pictureframingpro MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    We moved to a new location with a new name. Hope to have a commercial here soon to get the word out that we are here, and it is still me doing the work!
    *crossing fingers*
  25. Luddite

    Luddite PFG, Picture Framing God

    Assuming that ALL artists are ignorant,or worse,and wouldn`t know proper framing/mounting,pricing...whatever...And bashing them for it. We aren`t all stupid,I`ve been a professional artist since I was about 15,REALLY(no other employments).That said, I actually agree that there are lots of nutbars out there,just not this one....remember,without art NONE of us would be working....Well,ok maybe mirrors. L.:shrug:
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2008
  26. D_Derbonne

    D_Derbonne PFG, Picture Framing God

    I don't remember seeing any posts that said that all artists are stupid.

    Guess I haven't been paying attention.
  27. Framar

    Framar SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God


    This thread may well be cursed. For the second time in two days I have lost my internet connection whilst reading this thread.
  28. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I have never taken the time to thank Bill for his insight and generosity in creating The Grumble.

    Thank you Bill for creating a place for us to play and learn. You must feel like you have thousands of foster children all over the world.

    Mostly thank you for including me in this community,

    Jeff Rodier
  29. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Lauri, go make friends (its very easy) with Deb at Deb's in Polesbo. She is the hub for everyone in the west sound.
  30. Luddite

    Luddite PFG, Picture Framing God

    Not in so many words,but there are a number of threads that seem to imply just that,least to me.not flaming anybody here,as I too have been frustrated with some arteest ot two....Just sayin. L.
  31. DawnStendin

    DawnStendin MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    My only complaint...I want a smilie like this :beer: but with wine glasses!!! :D
  32. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Those are wine glasses!!

    But large with whipped cream on top!!:)
  33. pictureframingpro

    pictureframingpro MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    I think I will! Thanks! That is only about 15 miles away from me. IF that.
  34. Baer Charlton

    Baer Charlton SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Just walk in and say "Baer sent you this" and give her a hug. She always deserves it, it will make her happy, shes a great hug so it will make you happy, and then after that introductions are kind of not a big deal. :D
    I'll swing by in the spring.
  35. AnneL

    AnneL SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    And all photographers too. Believe it or not, there are photographers out there who do know what they are doing with framing and their numbers are slowly growing as they become better educated about framing. They really do care about their work lasting a long time. Instead of bashing them wouldn't it be better to educate them?
  36. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    For anyone looking for the "artists are stupid" quote...

    Artists, Photographers and people that walk funny are stupid and ignorant and smell funny.

    There, now there is a reason to defend Artists, photographers and the walking impaired.

    Just glad to do my civic duty.

  37. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Hey, I'm not an artist, photog and I don't walk funny, PLEASE stop lumping me and my kind in with those people!
  38. JbNormandog

    JbNormandog SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Bob, that is my first laugh of a long day.

  39. Emibub

    Emibub PFG, Picture Framing God

    Wow, that took real guts Bob. It is high time, it had to be said!
  40. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    But sculptors are the dumbest and most hated of all. They don't even buy frames. And, they have dirty hands.
  41. Luddite

    Luddite PFG, Picture Framing God

    Yeah,some of us end up MAKING them....Specially when some of the framers said sculptor have dealt with took a class or two that emphasized the markup potental...."your move,Paul".....If I smell funny it`s cause the Vulture got carsick ,again.....Really. L. (sculpture,mostly...but drifting...):nuts:
  42. Paul Cascio

    Paul Cascio SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    It was a joke.
  43. Luddite

    Luddite PFG, Picture Framing God

    Well,DUH.... why`d ya think I said "your turn paul"? L. (ouch)....:D.....BTW,carsick Vulture NOT a joke!
  44. Steph

    Steph SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I forgot what this thread was about.
  45. shayla

    shayla WOW Framer

    I don't think we're in Kansas anymore, Toto. :)
  46. The King

    The King SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    It's interesting to me that the question, "What is wrong with The Grumble?" would generate a comment about framers' attitudes toward artists, and it forces me to point out the obvious: The Grumble is an Internet forum. It doesn't have attitudes or moods or opinions. It is merely a convenient, and often entertaining, vehicle for sharing those things.
  47. hangupsgallery

    hangupsgallery MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Ok, back to the question, "what's wrong with the Grumble?" .... very little! But, each day as I open the G the first thing that pops up, at the top of the page is the opening this paragraph.......

    "Grumbling News:
    Today I've given all registered used the right to post - edit - delete on the calendar page. Events that are of interest to the art and framing industry should be posted. Please post wisely. Check out the bottom right of the calendar page for links on posting your event."

    Is it just me or should that first sentence read "Today I've given all registered users......." (instead of registered used)?


    BILL WARD SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    better to NOT have asked what is wrong with TG(not much IMO), but rather what can be done to improve upon the product!
  49. Tom Reigle

    Tom Reigle Guest

    "Ok, back to the question, "what's wrong with the Grumble?" .... very little! But, each day as I open the G the first thing that pops up, at the top of the page is the opening this paragraph......."

    Yeah but Bill hain't never been no spelling genious wen it commes to makeing honast mistakes with his key bored!! I no that y'all hain't never made no typoughs wen y'all werer tryin' to put together sum of those changes that knead to be maid from tiyme to time on a large foreum such as the Grumple verry late at knight and y'all coldn't even sea the keybored let aloan keep all thoze little letters lined up wright!!!
  50. HB

    HB SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Every Framer already knows that... why do you think the major conventions are all in vegas?!!?
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