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What is your average ticket

Discussion in 'The Voting Booth' started by FrameMakers, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    I noticed in another thread that someone mentioned their average ticket being $350. This is more than double mine at $140. There can be a ton of reasons for this ranging from the products that we sell to the size of the job that we are framing.

    With today's POS software we can tell this pretty easily. As I said, mine is $140 with an average united inches of 38".

    What is your average ticket and average UI.

    I wish I could turn this into a poll so people could put this information in a little more anonymously.
  2. i-FRAMER

    i-FRAMER MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    Since we switched POS our average ticket has gone from around $150 to $250
  3. Mike Labbe

    Mike Labbe Member, Former moderator team volunteer

    The 10th annual technology in the frame shop poll is about to begin, but I'll be glad to schedule another average ticket one when it ends.

    Great idea, it has been a while since we did this topic.

    FM Framer likes this.
  4. FrameMakers

    FrameMakers PFG, Picture Framing God

    Thanks Mike.
  5. blueeyes

    blueeyes CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Do you mind telling what POS you switched from and to?
  6. i-FRAMER

    i-FRAMER MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    i-FRAMER not yet available outside of Australia and New Zealand
    Switched from Framiac.
  7. Grey Owl

    Grey Owl SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Dave, I like your reference of including UI. In the past I had tracked ticket, but not UI. I know my average workorder amount has gone down, but thinking back, my average UI has gone down even more. I will need to revisit, and look at it as under 16 x 20 and over 16 x 20, and complete jobs vs mat only jobs.

    I've been doing quite a few that are 13 x 16 or smaller, (1/6 of a sheet of solid rag matboard), that I sell / ship and some are sold as matted only, and almost all (95%) have some mat decoration such as painted bevels, or wrapped bevels. If they are from my existing rag stock I inventory just for these, my price is around $100.00 for matted and mounted (no frame). If I have to buy a special color, the price is more, even if not solid rag. So I know my average retail is higher than your $140.00 for these 22 to 29 UI jobs. [I charge the same for 10 x 12 as 13 x 16].

    I don't offer any poster specials, except for special pricing for solid rag I stock, in sizes of 2/3 of a sheet and smaller. And my client base is different. But, when I look at different ticket prices, for me I need to look at why. Is it more than just customer base?

    Dave, this is kind of off topic, but you know I am a fanatic when it comes to discussing painted bevels and wrapped bevels. During my design I often start with a triple mat, generally, with the center mat just an accent color, then suggest instead, of going with a double, but with a uniquely colored hand-painted bevel for accent for the same price (or lower price if a color I don't stock that accent color) than the 3rd mat. Or I can add a wrapped bevel or just color the 3rd mat, for just a little more. And my margin ends up being better.

    Dave, lets talk more in Las Vegas. And bring your average price you charge for a 13 x 16 mat from your go to mat series, and your cost of your mat, and we can talk about some things.

    OFF TOPIC NOTE: This offer is open to others, If we have the time to talk in Las Vegas. Just bring the price you charge for a 13 x 16 mat from your go to mat series, and the cost of your mat. I feel very strongly about colored bevels, and this is something it is easy to do to differentiate you from others. For example, I just did a 16 x 36 mat size for an original watercolor (complete job) Instead of a simple double mat she wanted, we went with a simple double mat with a hand-wrapped hand-painted wrapped bevel (some call a bevel extension). An easy sell, and it made the piece look even better.

    Sorry about going off topic, but I get excited about this!
  8. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

  9. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    quick thought about average ticket prices

    while possibly admirable to have as high as possible average, it might not be the 'best' avenue to profitability

    I've used the analogy a gazillion times about the owner of the Bentley dealership vs the owner of the Nissan dealership; that of who ends up with 'more rocks in the box'.

    My initial reaction might be that the higher the average, the possibility of missing a segment of the market

    Make no mistake that market segment you choose is hugely personal, but biz is biz

    A great accolade might be a leader in one's market in volume and a great ticket average

    it seems often that with most framers its 'Pick One'

    Willie Mays was a great ball player because he hit a ton of homers with a high batting average

    It might be interesting to look at ahigh volume framer and compare the total dollars of High End framing that shop does vs the total dollars of a High End shop

    I guess most folks see where i'm going. If I were still at it, i would try to expand my HE framing, my bread n' butter framing and my pkg framing. Each would have corresponding ave ticket prices (which we actually did)

    one person's opinion
  10. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    My individual frame orders run from $60 to $5,000. Framing invoices run from $20 repairs to $19,000 multiple closed corner. Average doesn't mean much.
  11. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I use it more on a year to year basis. I agree that in itself it doesn't mean much, but I still like to know those numbers anyway and see how they compare from year to year. Just another tool, is all.
  12. Dave

    Dave SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Average unit price for 2014 fiscal year was $ 416.64 and average ticket price was $ 477.58.

    The ticket price would include orders for multiple units. I only have multiple units on one order if they are totally identical.

    Average UI was 44.45.
  13. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Hey Pat

    averages can be a useful tool when looking for trends, shifts, eroding margins, etc

    in truth, I suspect most don't put much effort into details like that. Don't you feel many show up to work every day and just take care of biz as it walks through the door?
  14. Ylva

    Ylva SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I like looking at numbers and reports. As I said, I use it as a tool. There might be a reason if average goes down, I just like to know what that reason is.
  15. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    Well said, and it all bears analysis. Let's just say that our average ticket is not on the high end of the spectrum, but our volume and sales totals are. Done well, one could certainly make a comfortable living without the stress of high volume by only selling high end framing, and each business needs to find its niche and work to promote that.

    I would love a poll that examined this, along with gross profit dollars on package specials, use of ready-mades, average ticket, average UI, average dollars per UI, average sales volume per employee, average employee hourly wage, and so on.
  16. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    hey Kirstie

    Your analysis probably isn't very critical to so many framers that are framers primarily and running the biz is a secondary role. The single person operator probably has their hands full taking orders, fulfilling orders and completing orders. Non framing operators like us, I suspect, use our abundance of free time to conger up detailed analysis lest we become bored LOL

    But, we did most of the things you listed except tne UI components. What do you develop that is actionable with that UI tracking? maybe we missed something

    i'll tell you one thing that is probably way too obscure but we had X number of feet of corner sample wall. Every so often we would match revenue generated by vendor vs number of samples. The thought that our 'wall' had a value and space was fiinite. We found some vendor's samples didn't justify space taken

    Solution? Easy decision when new samples from any vendor showed. Vendor A does 10% of biz, they get 10% wall. Every rep has 'sample envy' and easy to leverage that into 'You want 12 new samplers up? take 12 down or you want more space? Give me more discount. The dealing was fierce if Vendor L could increase wall space at the expense of Vendor R. I'm sure you get the reps coming in with several sets of new samples; it's your wall

    I know several framers that allow vendors to set their sample wall

    we didn't because we knew best what we were selling; not what they wanted to sell

    Big Difference
  17. neilframer

    neilframer PFG, Picture Framing God

    Big Difference[/QUOTE]
    You are spot on, Bob.

    We have 60 very large canvases that have to be gallery wrapped by the end of the week for installation in a hospital.
    The order just came in last week.
    This is on top of a huge production list that has us booked until late February.

    We also have to frame a large job for a restaurant that we will be installing in Las Vegas in February.
    We have done 6 other locations for them.

    So, I went into work today to help my boss with the work load.
    I don't normally work on Saturday, I work Monday thru Friday.

    We pretty much spent the whole day taking in a ton of more framing.
    It's all good, but we are now looking for some experienced framing help.

    Bob, about your comment, I've been framing for 45 years now and sometimes I see too much "analysis paralysis".
    I/we just take in the jobs and we get the work done and the customers are very pleased and they recommend us to others.
    We have 15 out of 15 -5 star reviews and we have been voted "Best of Phoenix" and we were just interviewed this week by the AZ newspaper for a story that will appear in Sunday's newspaper. (does anyone buy a newspaper anymore?). :cool:
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
  18. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    ... Non framing operators like us, I suspect, use our abundance of free time to conger up detailed analysis lest we become bored LOL

    But, we did most of the things you listed except tne UI components. What do you develop that is actionable with that UI tracking? maybe we missed something

    I know several framers that allow vendors to set their sample wall

    we didn't because we knew best what we were selling; not what they wanted to sell

    Big Difference[/QUOTE]

    No one messes with our sample wall.

    Regarding discounts in exchange for sample space, I think those days are over. Discounts are truly earned these days. Just look at the new Larson discount structure. It is very tightly managed with few if any, exceptions.

    No actionable tracking on UI, just interesting. The only thing one could do would be to increase mat size.

    Sorry, no detailed analysis in free time, Bob. I spend the bulk of my "free" time supervising daily operations and working with our graphic artist on the web site, promoting the business, and working on corporate sales and service. I also work at the design table now and then, and do much of the bookkeeping. I'm a very busy operator. But actual framing? No.
  19. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I agree, Neil. lots of paperwork shuffling may not yield many results, no doubt about it. But, maybe I am fortunate enough to have had great mentors schooling in how to gather, monitor, validate and act upon data. it's a skill just like stretching needleart or French matting. But, you have to do it consistently to become proficient

    Hey Kirstie-I was making a light hearted comment of 'free' time LOL. The point was imagine doing all the things you listed AND framing. Reality time: i might suggest that most framers simply don't have the 'luxury' of time devoted to some of the (important)things that I take for granted

    May I make an easy recommendation on mat size? We changed the default size on POS to reflect the widths we wanted. Designer could override but most didn't; required extra effort LOL. My opinion? client really didn't care how wide mat was as long as it looked good. I really think too much design time at counter was wasted discussing mat width. How many times, when using 4in mat samples did client reach to get frame and slide it down to show a narrower width?

    Bottom line: we use default width and can't remember any client demanding we cut down mat when picking up finished project

    might be foggy on this but think I remember a default width staggered by finished size. E.G. 3 in up to 16x20, 3.5in up tp 24x30 and 4in for larger? I know we a few tweaks written into our software
    Grey Owl likes this.
  20. MnSue

    MnSue SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    there is also a difference in avg ticket for "complete framing jobs" vs just mat cuts etc. If everything, or all types of framing for customers, is combined intoi one category, it is difficult to know a true" avg ticket..."
    framestudio likes this.
  21. cwit

    cwit True Grumbler

    I have the fabric mat samples on my design table and I only use conservation glass or museum glass...and that display is right behind me. People don't see the glass and they want it!! I don't worry about cost on the original design....and I add fillets to everything. Perhaps making your designs more elaborate and stacking frames might up your bottom line.
  22. Andrew Lenz Jr.

    Andrew Lenz Jr. MGF, Master Grumble Framer

    That's my thought. Our average ticket for this month will include lots of $5-$10 pieces of glass and $20 mats, but also the $1400 order I took last week to frame up an oversized painting in a stacked frame. Our average ticket for our custom framing department last year was under $100, but that is NOT our average full custom framing order, that's the average of all of our services . . . from selling bits of hardware to a customer for a total of 75ยข to a multi-piece order for $2,000.

  23. Bob Carter

    Bob Carter SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Great! You create a number. What do you do with it? Perhaps breaking down categories like supply items like glass or mats, a category for mor 'basic framing, a category for fancy pants framing? Develop 'ave ticket price' by category. Might be a lttle more valuable
    Framing Goddess likes this.

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