What won't you frame?

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House Mouse (Mus musculus)

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Meadow Vole aka Field Mouse (Microtus pennsylvanicu)

Obviously, either one can live in the field, so my conscience is clear (at least with regard to this incident.) But I'm sorry about this thread . . .
 
Where oh where has this thread gone? Where oh where can it be???

I do not hunt, I kill only spiders and yes I do kill them. However my brother has a group of friends that he has hunted with for about 35 years and he is a real hunter in my opinion. He and his group go deer hunting every year and they hunt only with bows and arrows. How's that for real sport?

I toooo want to know why Miterman knows so much about the dead and preservation of them. Are you one of those zombies?
 
Hi, I'm new. I've been framing off an on since I was 18. (Now 22.)


The only thing I have ever outright refused to frame is something that would be technically impossible. For example, a couple months ago this woman brought in an antique christening gown from her grandmother or something that was literally crumbling to pieces. The satin had turned brown and was practically paper, it had holes where something had been eating it, and all kinds of other problems. I don't think it could have been saved. She seemed kind of irritated that I told her I couldn't frame it, then I asked her what exactly she wanted me to do since it was crumbling even on the countertop, and she said she didn't know. I told her to get the phone book and try to find someone that does heirloom framing.

The grossest thing I have ever framed was this big shadowbox for this woman who had a bunch of junk from her husband (they told me he was dead but I'm not sure if they were telling the truth or not). A BIG chunk of hair, a really creepy broken Cewpie (sp?) doll, a recipe for some alcoholic drink, and the stupidest "Will you marry me?" postcard/bad poetry thing you ever saw. To worsen it, she picked out the nastiest tan suede mat we carry and this orangey shadow box frame. It looked crusty and 30 years old while it was still brand new. I made the other framer do it.

I'm often complaining that we don't get enough pictures of nekkid ladies to frame in our shop, so I wouldn't have a problem framing pornography or anything like that so long as it wasn't kiddie porn, bestiality, illegal, etc. I probably wouldn't have a problem with dead animals as long as they were properly preserved.

Living in Houston I am really, really tired of framing NASA pictures.
 
Jin,
Welcome to the Grumble!! What a neat web-site, too!
You're among fellow music-lovers, also. Especially on the 'Warped Moulding' forum. Hope we hear from you a lot more, especially on Warped!

"There is no dark side of the moon, really. 'Matter of fact, it's ALL dark!!"
 
The one thing I framed that caused an uproar in the shop was an American flag... burned. Now before you start calling me an anti-patriot or whatever, I assure you that the customer was extremely apprehensive about the job, but explained that it was for a project on free speech and it's applications to flag burning and the like (or something like that, it was so long ago.)She had several small charred pieces and a partially melted eagle. I did the best I could with it. The manager, a veteran, refused to even look at it, and gave me no end of grief for taking it in. Still not sure if I should have. After all that's gone on in the last year, I would probably pass on the same job, as I think it would be in even MORE bad taste now.
 
Call me old-fashioned, or anything else, but it's illegal to burn an American flag. Personally, and this is JUST my opinion, I wouldn't want one for ANY kind of project. If a person wants to get a 'point across' there are plenty of video reports of, ah, people in dry, arid places, holding 'Death To America' signs, shooting up in the air and gleefully setting fire to the flag.

What about it, John? Would YOU frame a burned flag.

I'm not trying to get down on you, Andy. I just feel strongly abvout it, and I would've sent that customer packing, if I'd had to borrow the money to pay the rent that month. But, that's just me...
 
I don't agree with her motivation for framing the flag, but I was doing my JOB. It's one thing when you work for yourself and can call the shots, but another thing entirely when someone else is the boss. Also, you will please note that I said this happened several years ago, loooong before the **** hit the fan last year. And, yes, I know the anti-American sentiment in the "dry, arid" places has been going on since long before 9/11. I mean only that NOW, at this present time, I wouldn't take in something like that, because I would be hard-pressed to buy the "freedom of speech" balony she was peddling. On top of that, I am the boss now, and what I choose to frame or not frame is exactly that... MY choice.

Also, if memory serves me correctly, burning the flag is deemed NECESSARY if for any reason the flag has touched the ground. More times than not, I'm afraid, there are loopholes in any law.
 
Originally posted by CharlesLowry:
I'm not trying to get down on you, Andy. I just feel strongly abvout it, and I would've sent that customer packing, if I'd had to borrow the money to pay the rent that month. But, that's just me...
Please understand that I'm NOT down on you. If your boss was a vet, and he told you to do it, then you were doing your job. If I'd been the boss, that's a job I'da turned down. I understand your position at that time, and don't think you're un-patriotic at all.
 
Charles, As a card carrying veteran, my answer would be NOPE!

I recently read several books writen by a customer of mine called "The Children of Hitler" and " The Burden of Hitler's Legacy". The authors name is Alfons Heck. My stance on framing war era German or Nazi memorabelia has since softened, after talking to him and reading his books. They also made a movie about his life during and after WWII. He has also toured the country giving speeches on the war along with Hellen Waterford, a survivor of Auchwitz who was a customer of mine many years ago, she is one of the people who never followed me to my new location.

Understanding what actually went on during those tough times helps a lot. This guy was a fanatical Nazi youth leader who has become good friends with a death camp survivor. I guess time helps to break down even the toughest barriers. Susan Hagestrom, who wrote "Sara's Children",( another customer of mine )is also a friend of Alfons Heck.

John
 
MitreMan, if you don't mind my asking, just where did you acquire your very specific embalming information? Is framing not your first career?
I'm glad to say that my knowledge of embalming and decomposing bodies only come from readiing, not first-hand experience. You see, I recently read a fascinating book titled Dead men Do Tell Tales by William R. Maples, Ph.D. who is a forensic anthropologist. It's a wonderful account of many of the cases he has worked on to help solve crimes, including the grisly Gainesville, Florida murders of the fall of '89. I happened to come across it in the Social Sciences section at the local Barnes & Noble.

Reading that reminded me of a book titled The American Way of Death Revisited by Jessica Mitford. Originally written in 1963, it's a very revealing look at the American funeral industry. People think framers charge too much? Ha! You ain't seen nothing yet. As part of its subject matter, it too goes into some rather lavish descriptions of what happens to the body post mortem.

Now, as for the whole flag burning issue...

We can't forget that our constitution guarantees free speech for all Americans, no matter how repugnant those ideas may be to others, as long as the expression of those ideas does not deprive another of his rights to life liberty or property. So, if some candyass spoiled brat from the suburbs who once saw the Koran in the library wants to burn our flag, that's his right. Just don't endanger me or my property in doing so, or take away my rights in the process. Isn't that the whole point of the Bill of Rights? To protect unpopular thoughts and speech?

Now, if that punk brought that half burned flag for me to frame as a "trophy" from a rally, I'm perfectly within my rights to refuse to frame it. And boot his butt out in the process.

But what if that flag had been burned say in the Gulf War or WWII?

What if it was a flag that a cop had stamped out at a rally after supporters of bin Laden had lit it on fire?

Just to clarify: It is perfectly legal and acceptable to burn a flag in a DIGNIFIED manner to destroy a tattered or torn flag, rather than just throwing it away. As far as being legal to burn a flag at all in other circumstances, I believe a few states or localities have tried to pass laws against it, but they have been struck down as being unconstitutional. Oh, that pesky constitution again. So then Congress tried to amend it to ban flag burning. Didn't get anywhere. You see, if there was an amendment, then those laws would be constitutional. But don't we all have better things to worry about?

Sort of like the whole pledge thing.
 
Actually MitreMan's lying. He rally was born and raised in the Eastern European mountain areas, his real name is Count Alucard, close relation to...O never mind.

Actually, I read this withsome humor because my absolutely best employee is a young lady, 30ish whos working on her PhD in forensic anthropology. Has attended many a lecture by novelist/pathologist Patricia Cornwell, and was head buyer in Atlanta for Saks. Love her to death as do our customers. But, can she ever talk about charred thises and thatses and the stuff that comes from murder scenes. Don't know how a gorgeous woman like this can do stuff like that but, hey, to each his own.

Most intersting thing I've done is frame original KKK membership cards with the letters of acceptance into the Klan. Hey, it's history, just like Nazi and SS stuff. I'd do that too if asked and for the same reason.
 
My, my.... my post has taken on a life of its own. I didn't think I'd be stirring up such a huge hornet's nest of controversy when I mentioned that stupid burned flag. After seeing some of the subsequent posts, I just had to post again.

For one, let me reiterate that this girl brought this flag in YEARS ago, as in 4-5 years BEFORE all this BS with bin Laden. Also, let me note here that the customer was a 20-ish, Caucasian college student, not a Middle Eastern anti-American supporter. Now whereas I agree that flag burning for FUN should be illegal, should someone feel the inclination to burn a flag as a form of protest is their business. Though I am very against the way the Arab nations burn the flag as a "protest" against America, villifying the country as the cause of all their woes. It's always easier to point the finger at someone else than to find fault with they way one's self does things.

I also must comment on the fact that many of you would frame Nazi memorabilia or KKK items with little to no thought as to it appropriateness. Many of you mention that it's to "preserve history". How, exactly, do we know when something is being framed for posterity, or being framed to commemorate some malicious group/deed? By the customer's word? Quite frankly, I would have more issues framing anything Nazi or KKK related than that flag!

As was told to me, I am not coming down on any of you. And I do not continue to post on this thread because of any need to defend myself or my actions, or to attack any of your own. We all have our own motivations for what we WILL frame, and what we WILL NOT, and we may not always agree. But isn't it nice to know that we can share these opinions, withour fear of being repressed?
 
What about a naked picture of Hitler holding a burned American flag, wearing nothing but a KKK hood? Would you frame THAT?
 
*ROFLMAO*

Thanks for the morning wakeup
 
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