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Opinions Wanted What would your shop look like w/o LJ?

PicturedFramer

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Where do you start to pull off LJ stuff? Do you keep the gaudy big stuff just for looks? The other samples go and just find the competitors knock off or similar mouldings. Reduce the competition to a minimum. Do your other suppliers have the replacement (FI, Roma, Studio, AMPF, Garrett, Omega, Nurre Caxton) Who has stuff like LJ samples, I mean the big gold and silver 3 inch and 4+ samples?
Do we have a frame shop model? Should we share websites and organize to better fend off the LJ onslaught? How many independent framers are there out there to form a coalition for more power? What is our power? I guess these are questions I'm asking myself now and then again...or should we just tend to our own business and go away, don't stir up any muck...:icon11:
PF
 
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Bob Doyle

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Roma for gaudy big.

No LJ, well enhancers and fillets, but Studio has the fillets covered, and nicer IMHO.

So LJ only for existing customers that want to match their LJ jobs. and for fillets.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I happen to like LJ.
Great moulding. Excellent service. Always willing to help me out when I need them.

If you don't like LJ, don't do business with them. But I am getting sick and tired of the LJ bashing lately. What's up with that?
So yes, they make business decisions some of us might not like. Guess what, they might not like some of the decisions we make in our businesses.

In the end, business is business. I understand that.
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I have about 14 moulding companies, and none of them LJ, so I don't know direct comparisons. But for big ornates I'd say Roma, Decor, Turner, Fotiou and probably also Omega.
 

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
... But I am getting sick and tired of the LJ bashing lately. What's up with that?

Funny thing is, I used to be one of the bashers.

They sweet talked me into doing business with them.

I am now a Partner, and they have about 90% of my moulding sales.

I could easily make them 100% and feel good about it.

Anyone who absolutely refuses to do business with them is only hurting themselves.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
What would your shop look like w/o LJ?
Maybe a hair salon... maybe a bakery or heck even a consignment shop. Don't know, I'd be the same place as my former competition.

Going forward who knows but that's where I'd be now. I know too many intelligent people at LJ to think that this isn't going to play out in the right way.
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ylva ...it is easy to say that sitting in Massachusetts. If you were in the far northwest you may feel differently. I see on the other thread that those with most concern are located there.

LJ comprises about 1/3 of my moulding selections. Like Bob, the biggest problem would be matching previous jobs. I too like LJ and hope the issue resolves itself over time.

If LJ suddenly flew off my shelves I'd probably be down to the number of mouldings I probably should have being the moulding junky that I am. I currently have close to three thousand samples and recently eliminated 800.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Don't have them in my store and haven't for a LONG time since they were hot to buy up all of the smaller frame companies. It always bothers me when a company actively works to become the sole source for any industry.
I realized that there are plenty of other companies out there that I don't need to have the same frames as all of the other LJ frame shops.
I am not hurting myself at all by not having them on my walls.
 

Steven6095

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
My shop would be just like it is now, since LJ will not sell to me.

And for the record - I COMPLETELY AGREE with that stance. Those with more invested should be entitled to some reward.
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ylva ...LJ gets picked on for a number of reasons:

~ They are the big boyz. When you are the biggest many want to poke at you.

~ Unlike Steven, many home based framers deplore and are insulted by their stance on not selling to home based framers. I recently spoke to one who said when he does grow and become a storefront operation he'll never buy from LJ because of this policy.

~ Currently it appears that they are directly competeing with their own customers via the internet. Also a well liked supplier is potentially being hurt by their purchase yanking 44 retail stores from their customer base if I understand the rumor/fact/factoid information correctly.
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
You seriously need to re-think that.

It matters not to me who you do business with, but you really need to trim down to no more than 5 suppliers. Maybe 3.

You can't be a big dog with any of them.

I'd say 4 companies I do business with on a fairly regular basis. Three of which offer me a good discount, and they get the majority of my business in return.

I wish there were a one-stop-shop for all the types of frames I want to present, but there just isn't. My father's shop had maybe 3 vendors, and I know I'm getting a much better discount with those companies than he ever did.

I'd say I sell 70% from one company, 10% from the other, 10% from the third, 5% from the fourth, and the last 5% is split up among the remaining 10 vendors. I'm a big enough dog for my top 3 vendors, discount-wise that is.
 

Bob Doyle

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Yiya, LJ used to get bashed once a month! It was pretty crazy, and stupid. LJ one week, Micheals and Joanne the next then TK for 2 weeks and back to LJ!

Up until the last thread about LJ I've treated them all with a grain of salt. Just bitter bickering. This last one isn't good in my eyes because it is "legit". Now I'm worried that the M&J threads may become true as well ;)

But I still have an LJ account. I can still order from LJ, and like their service, I just don't use them much at all.
 

DawnStendin

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Yiya, LJ used to get bashed once a month! It was pretty crazy, and stupid. LJ one week, Micheals and Joanne the next then TK for 2 weeks and back to LJ!

QUOTE]

LOL but TK had it coming! :vomit: :p
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
But I am getting sick and tired of the LJ bashing lately. What's up with that?
I think any "bashing" is proportional to their market share. I've seen a number of people complaining about (insert vendor name) but it's less frequent because of a lower market share. That, plus LJ makes moves that provoke indy frame shops, such as recently offering customer direct sales for near wholesale prices.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Thank God this is America - people can say and write what they want. People like or dislike LJ and will take their pot shots at them and not only because they are the Big Boyz on the block. I personally dislike LJ. I have personal reason for my dislikes which has nothing to do with their size, if a tiny company would have treated me the way I was treated by LJ I wouldn't like them either. Never in my lifetime will LJ have moldings in my shop, I will close my doors first. I have not lost a single sale because I don't carry LJ and I can pretty well imagine that 99% of the frame shops in the US have never been asked for LJ by name by a normal customer. There are a lot of suppliers out there and there are many that have a lot better looking molding than what LJ has.
 
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Baer Charlton

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
[Gawd I hope Marni isn't watching]

Part of being the biggest nail and tallest nail on the board is you're going to get hardest and first and last and in between. It goes with the nature of the beast. If they hadn't bought up all of those other small mfg, vendors, etc then they wouldn't be sticking out so much... nor would they be such a big guy from lack of competition.
Yes, I miss Bendix and the REAL Juhl Pacific. But I also miss when Bainbridge was Bainbridge, Nielson was Nielson, and NC was NC. I miss a lot of my old motorcycles, I miss the staminina to ride all night and work all day and still surf all Sunday long. I miss my old dorm room, and it's increadable view. I miss traveling 850,000 miles year, but I like getting FF miles better.

Several years ago our shop pitched the company that pitched us and through almost all of that business to FI. What we got was our rep for LJ is an unanswered phone in Atlanta or Mumbi or somewhere else us can't understand. It's now cheaper to get our order from 178 miles away by UPS.

From FI, out of the box we got a better deal than if we were an LJ Partner. We get treated with respect, we can see our rep anytime he's in town or at least talk to him on the phone. He gets back to us almost as fast as I do, and I really respect that in a rep.
We had a problem once during Christmas, they kept chopping and sending the wrong moulding profile of the right Family. Finally one day the guy who brought in a replacement for the wrong chop that I had refused that morning started to lay down the wrapped chop. I told him to hold it. I opened it, and it was the wrong moulding.
I stepped over to the wall, and grabbed the sample of what we had been ordering and wrapped some tape on an end.... then took all 14 of the series off the wall, stuck them in a bag and told the guy to "give this to the powers that be, I don't want them if they can't get their **** together".
40 minutes later, Chris the rep drove up with the right chop, a big box of really great Truffles, and a sheepish "we're sorry; and BTW the guy you just reamed, is the owner..... but he got the point." And they have never screwwed up that bad again. If I wasn't repping for who I do, I'd be proud to rep for them.

There are several things that LJ does that seems (IMHO) to be shooting themselves in the left foot before the marathon.. but they have been doing it for a long time and they make a heck of a lot more money than anybody else in this business...... so I guess it works for them.
 

MollyB.

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Oranization of independent framers!

Do we have a frame shop model? Should we share websites and organize to better fend off the LJ onslaught? How many independent framers are there out there to form a coalition for more power? What is our power? I guess these are questions I'm asking myself now and then again...or should we just tend to our own business and go away, don't stir up any muck...:icon11:
PF
Francisco!!! Guess what? In the Pacific NW there is a group that IS there just for the purpose of sharing ideas and talking about what is going on in the industry. It's called the Evergreen Picture Framers Guild...You should JOIN! A little straightforward conversation sometimes allows a little more insight and a little more knowledge and a lot more fun!

I, personally, am not sharing my thoughts on the past couple weeks of happenings. As you may all remember from a previous rant, I am a VERY loyal customer to my sales reps and I can see the situation from both sides pretty clearly, and, being a business person, can understand the validity of both sides. Good luck to all of you! I hope we're all here when we get to the other side of all this.
 

PaulSF

PFG, Picture Framing God
Rather than bashing LJ, I'm going to respond in terms of the designs and styles that LJ offers, vs. other companies. I don't think I could replace LJ with either Nurre Caxton or Roma, because they offer a style of moulding that is distinctive and unique from what LJ offers. They each have their own place on my wall. If LJ disappeared from my wall for some reason, I would probably look to Omega to replace much of it. They have quite a few mouldings that are pretty close to LJ mouldings, and I've generally been happy with the quality and the service I get from Omega. I would probably give more wall space to Arquati and Vermont Hardwoods, which both have nice quality and service, but aren't better represented on my wall just because there isn't room.

A big consideration is that I get a regular 2x/week delivery of moulding and supplies from LJ, and these other suppliers would have to ship to me via UPS or another service. I really like that regularity of delivery, which means I would look to another local distributor, like Valley Moulding and/or Hankins-Koppel, which also have truck delivery to my area.
 

Luddite

PFG, Picture Framing God
Thank God this is America - people can say and write what they want. People like or dislike LJ and will take their pot shots at them and not only because they are the Big Boyz on the block. I personally dislike LJ. I have personal reason for my dislikes which has nothing to do with their size, if a tiny company would have treated me the way I was treated by LJ I wouldn't like them either. Never in my lifetime will LJ have moldings in my shop, I will close my doors first. I have not lost a single sale because I don't carry LJ and I can pretty well imagine that 99% of the frame shops in the US have never been asked for LJ by name by a normal customer. There are a lot of suppliers out there and there are many that have a lot better looking molding than what LJ has.
Wow...Thought I was alone.I have NO problems with policies,tell me "no"...I CAN take that.Heck I am in holiday decor wholesale,I`ve had to refuse customers too. Ah,but I do it politely,and there`s the difference.No I don`t bash......but I do have fantasies involving a flamethrower once in a while...:D (BTW,they DO have some GORGEOUS stuff,dang it....) L.
 

RParrish

PFG, Picture Framing God
You seriously need to re-think that.

It matters not to me who you do business with, but you really need to trim down to no more than 5 suppliers. Maybe 3.

You can't be a big dog with any of them.
I 100% agree with Jerry on this issue. When I looked at who I was selling the most moulding from it was Larson hands down, through in free delivery and a 10 minuted commute if I need anything last minute. Basically I was spread out all over the place with suppliers and decided in the long run to pool my purchasing power into one vendor. And that desicsion has paid off and I am looking at being a "partner".
This coming from someone who hated the company. Now things have turned around, I want someone big behind my back.
 

nikfrz

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
My shop looks great w/o LJ. I quit them four years ago and havent suffered from it. They didnt upset me in any way, always great CS. They dont deliver to my area so I was at a disadvantage at getting into their partner program. And they gave me few incentives to sell their moulding, while other big fish in the pond were giving me very attractive benies. When I moved, I had to make a decision who I was going to keep and who I wasnt. I do on occasion order from them if a customer comes in to match a frame.

I did, however, have someone come in about a year ago. She took a look at my wall and said "Wow, your carry LJ!" I said No I dont. I then asked her why she thought I carried LJ, and she told me because the shop that she used to have her framing done carried nothing but LJ, and my samples were as pretty as theirs. Go figure.
 

PicturedFramer

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Am I paranoid?

Molly: a little straight talk...
As I stated before I like LJ as a whole, especially my sales rep Joe. Just not their business practices when it comes to directly impacting my business and others like me in the NW.
What does "preferred vendor" mean to my business when there is a MQF, Beards, Frame Central, etc., around the block? It means they get lower prices on all their stuff LJ sells to them. Lower costs to them and higher costs to us who aren't part of the family. LJ just raised their prices to us and lowered their prices to the LJ "preferred vendor" family. Now that's business, tell me it ain't so Joe.
And if Baer was right about the last of the days of free samples, guess what-they have us right where they planned to. AIP? So how do we compete? Or do they just make more profit selling to the LJ family and to us all too? There is nothing wrong with more profit! Those of you who aren't impacted by any of this have nothing to fear, nothing to lose so I should quit my bitxxing, huh?
What's the best case scenario, that LJ sells to us as though we were part of the family. It won't happen anytime soon or ever...
How can one small shop compete with a giant living down the street? I'm saying it sucks bigtime and the giant is just making it harder to succeed in these tough economic times. I don't need it do you?
PF
PS- I will join as soon as I get some money in the bank....
 

Artifacts Gal

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
The Same

Our shop would look the same without LJ, I dumped them years ago for several reasons (I won't bore you with more bashing). I have one customer who wants me to match the LJ frames she bought elsewhere (no problem, I still have an account with them); one customer who seemed impressed with the LJ name when it came up. Otherwise my customers don't know LJ from PB&J.
Marge Miccio, Artifacts Gallery
http://www.artifactsgallerytrenton.com
 

JWB9999999

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I have occasional customers who specifically request to use LJ mouldings on their framing. Half the time they end up using something else anyway, but they come in because they know I have LJ. I usually have between 3 and 6 LJ mouldings in stock at any one time. On the sample wall, they represent probably about 30% of my total number of samples, even though I have samples from 14 moulding companies on the wall.

I could probably replace most of their samples, but I really don't want to try. My rep sends me free sample corners of every new thing that they come out with, and we often find new things we like. Yes, other companies come out with knockoffs a year later, but why wait for that?
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Wow...Thought I was alone.I have NO problems with policies,tell me "no"...I CAN take that.Heck I am in holiday decor wholesale,I`ve had to refuse customers too. Ah,but I do it politely,and there`s the difference.No I don`t bash......but I do have fantasies involving a flamethrower once in a while...:D (BTW,they DO have some GORGEOUS stuff,dang it....) L.
Luddite, sounds as if we had the same type of problem - oh well - but I too will agree but very quietlyyes they do have some nice stuff:shrug:
 
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Bob Doyle

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
who's marni?
There's athread about an article in a mag that bashed framers. From what i can tell, Marni wrote it, and the thread went on for 250+ posts. I don't think she ever saw it, or even knows we are mad at her, but that didn't stop many from obsessing about her.....
 

trinity

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I can't imagine getting rid of Larson-Juhl.
We are a small independent frameshop and have been in business
5 years. They and their reps have been a hugh help over the years.
Just the other day We had a 30 pc. rush order and our sales rep
was unable to get us the moulding we need but the warehouse manager drove it to us. Their customer service is Amazing!:thumbsup:
 

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
... Their customer service is Amazing!:thumbsup:
I agree. For being the most dominate supplier in our industry they do an amazing job of supplying great product at reasonable prices, delivering that product, creating demand, solving problems, assist with marketing, have some of the he most personable sales reps, offer a helpline that if I didn't know of the "G" would be an invaluable aid, support PPFA and regional efforts, and are overall one of the most responsible vendors in the industry.

I'm impressed by the company.

That said, I hope I'm not competing with them in the near future...

:icon11:
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Just be consistent and base your decisions on what the reality is and not what some people might like you to believe. Know who you're talking to. A messageboard isn't the best source of unbiased information.

I remember how many people defended a wholesaler on here when he's dumping on eBay. And how having wholesale prices and an open cart are ok for others. Now, I think both of those strategies can only end in epic fail. And as far as the Documounts website goes if it were to remain the same I would be notably unhappy. But I spoke to people who are involved and I think it will change. If you're concerned enough to change your buying habits I suggest you speak directly to the involved people as well and give it time to play out before you change your business.

I think the Documounts site was a smaller component of a bigger picture regarding wholesale distribution in the NorthWest and there are bound to be some very unhappy players. Nevertheless it exists and I think that the fact that it's not just done-away with speaks volumes to the growing domination of photographers on our industry.
 

alaskanframer

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Larson & Juhl the evil company that we all love to hate

Our shop deals with Larson & Juhl and we have a great relationship, I do not fault them for wanting to expand their business. Currently I would say they do a very good job at most things, do I have concerns yes, do I have problems yes, do they always address and take care of those concerns and problem YES. I have dealing with NC, Decor, Studio, Designer, all of which are fine companies I like the day after day professionalism of Larson & Juhl. Their recent purchase has been explained to me and hopefully my rep is truthful, which I have no reason to think otherwise, so I am not that concerned, am I always watching yes. I certainly hope no one will be upset with me but I am working on a expansion of your business that might cut into so of the home based business in our area, gee what I terrible person I am.
We really must reward the companies we like by doing business with them, and STOP doing business that we do not like, if L&J is that company the stop doing business with them. To complain about a company because the are making a business decision that may work out for them or may be a drain on them and not because of there service is a bit childish. Have any of you ever wanted to expand your business not just your client list?
 

Cavalier

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
We had a problem with Larson-Juhl about two years ago when the distribution center in Atlanta seemed to lose comprehension on our orders. When we called up, it was as though we were speaking a different language. (And despite what television teaches us, not all Mainers speak with a Down East accent, although I'm told I have a bit of a Canadian Maritime accent, especially how I pronounce short "a".) So comes our sales rep Harry Palangos, who comes up with a brilliant idea to have us put our orders direct through the Boston branch with the fabulous Mickey and company, and we've never had a problem since; if there was a mistake, it was quickly and efficiently rectified. They do the free delivery, even up in Maine, and Harry's been so helpful and just a great all around guy, remembering every detail about not only our shop but the employees as well. It was customer service that sells us, as we sell to our customers as well.

Larson-Juhl is probably 60-70% our samples, and Artique roughly 40% of our conservation mats.

Overall, we've had an issue with all of our distributors at least one, and all of them had decent customer service -- but Larson Juhl really stands out.

Don Mar's a very close second, though, but they're strictly northeast.

You know, now that I think about it, with all the highs and lows of each distributor, I really can't bash any of them.
 

Luddite

PFG, Picture Framing God
We had a problem with Larson-Juhl about two years ago when the distribution center in Atlanta seemed to lose comprehension on our orders. When we called up, it was as though we were speaking a different language. (And despite what television teaches us, not all Mainers speak with a Down East accent, although I'm told I have a bit of a Canadian Maritime accent, especially how I pronounce short "a".) So comes our sales rep Harry Palangos, who comes up with a brilliant idea to have us put our orders direct through the Boston branch with the fabulous Mickey and company, and we've never had a problem since; if there was a mistake, it was quickly and efficiently rectified. They do the free delivery, even up in Maine, and Harry's been so helpful and just a great all around guy, remembering every detail about not only our shop but the employees as well. It was customer service that sells us, as we sell to our customers as well.

Larson-Juhl is probably 60-70% our samples, and Artique roughly 40% of our conservation mats.

Overall, we've had an issue with all of our distributors at least one, and all of them had decent customer service -- but Larson Juhl really stands out.

Don Mar's a very close second, though, but they're strictly northeast.

You know, now that I think about it, with all the highs and lows of each distributor, I really can't bash any of them.
That wasn`t an LJ problem.....It`s Atlanta.I dare ya to find good fast service anywhere(other than an indy biz)at any sort of business,of any size....I dares ya!Ain`t gonna happen! L.
 

John Ranes II CPF GCF

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Perspective...

Americans do love to bash to whoevers on top...it's our way - regardless if it be UPS, Thomas Kincade, AOL, the President or Larson Juhl. And in these economic times, where framers seem to have a little more time on their hands, these spurts of "grumbling" tend to emerge in this forum more frequently.

With 30 years of retail business framing experience behind us, I will share with you all that we've had as many as 12-14 moulding/chop suppliers and it worked for us and can work for others. But somewhere along the line, we recognized that by parring down to 6 vendors made great business sense: More efficiency, stronger vendor relationship, time savings, greater potential discounts...

We moved to 3 primary and 3 suplementary vendors, where Larson-Juhl became our primary frame supplier. It was a smart professional move for our business as it grew and we've been rewarded with many perks. I can honestly say that we would not be as successful today, had we not made that decision to make LJ our primary vendor of choice. The strong relationship has been fueled by a very professional sales rep, Mary Lindbergh who has solid product knowledge, keeps communications flowing and knows our staff.

Could I live without Larson-Juhl? Sure I could. Would I want to.....No.

John

P.S. Please check the newsmakers articles on page 20 of the May 2009 issue of Decor Magazine.

May I also suggest that those framers that have the time to allow these issues to devour them, that they re-channel this energy to other projects: clean up their website; network with some local businesses; Do an analysis of their pricing structure on their POS software... plan out an advertising budget and game plan for the next 12 months.... generate some additional retail business.
 

Luddite

PFG, Picture Framing God
You are dead wrong about that.

LJ blows all the indys out of the water here.

The local suppliers here suck big time.
NO,NO.....Atlanta in General...Restraunts,shops,whatever....Worst service I can get usually.....That was a bit of a(flopped,I daresay) joke! L.
 

KincadeOverdose

True Grumbler
I make decisions for our frame shop based on what's best for business.

Does LJ sometimes make choices that make them seem like an evil overlord? Yes. But if I stopped using LJ I'd be miserable. I get delivery twice a week, first thing in the morning and the delivery drivers are great. My rep is wonderful and does everything I ask of her...to the point that she always wants to do more than I ask of her! She's in a busy market so I really appreciate that. I'm a pretty quiet person so it sometimes takes someone else to offer to do something before I'll ask, and I never have to worry about waiting for an offer.
The customer service is excellent, I have minimal quality issues, and the issues I do have get resolved to my benefit always.

I understand the impulse to drop a company that makes some iffy business decisions that go against what independent framers stand for. However, until those decisions affect my shop in a way that outweighs all the benefits I get from LJ, I'm going to keep their samples on my wall.
 
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shayla

WOW Framer
I dreamed last night that I took down all my LJ samples, and
this is what the shop looked like when I got there this morning......




.
.
.
.

ha ha. funny. joke.


Actually, I'm thinking that what johnny said in post number 35 is good council.
As egregious an act as this seems on LJ's part, it's wise to see what shape all this
is going to take before responding too fiercely. I'm righteously miffed that FI got the shaft in the way they did, and am feeling more loyal to them than ever right now. But that's still just a case of rough, tough business dealing. I don't like it at all, but who knows what any of us would have done if we were at the LJ helm on this one. What concerns me even more is what it might mean in regards to eroding the division between retail and wholesale customers, and how that will play out for those of us on this end. Maybe we don't know the whole story on that one yet, and I'm willing to sit tight for a bit to see what they do with it.

But to play devil's advocate to myself, perhaps now is the best time of all
to react fiercely. If they get a loud, clear message of no tolerance from enough
people, maybe it will affect how they absorb and re-translate Documounts.

How to react is something I wonder about, though. In this business climate,
even if I did call my rep and complain, I'm not so sure she'd want to yap about
it to corporate. Who wants to be seen as a firestarter at a time when layoffs
are widespread in the industry? And if we pull our samples, will they back off,
or consider it a sign that they were right about the direction of the industry,
plowing even more money and effort in another direction? Again, it might be
helpful to know just how much of LJ's business comes from us and how much
from other sources.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
I didn't get the memo that LJ is on top! International seem far more interested in expanding and the ONLY supplier out there really expanding in a way to reduce our costs. I'll bet they are currently growing at a rate that makes LJ look stale.

I've tried 3 times to incorperate LJ into my business. This last go was my best effort and it just didn't work out. It's a shame too becuase they do have good reps, I just can't work with the company. What would a shop look like without LJ? Visit anytime m-f 9-5 and you will see. I have none.

Now for the gratuitous bashing. I made one call to International and they added a whole new route to deliver to me. LJ has kicked me off the truck and it drives by my shop every week. It's an overnight route also and I pass the truck on the way in on Thursdays as it sits in the same spot at the same hotel near my house. If they keep those kind of tactics up, they won't be the biggest for long. I suspect they aren't now but the most visible.
 

MikeO

Grumbler in Training
I haven't dealt with Larson for over 7 years and don't regret it one bit. I get better prices, service, and a greater variety of choices by using a variety of vendors who deliver in my area. I can have a mat delivered any day of the week, I've lowered my glass costs 25% over the last 2 years by playing one against the other for my business, and finally people can't walk into my store and say "I saw this at [big box retailer]." Not ever having Larson in my store has been a great thing, I don't need them so I don't use them.
 

Jack Cee

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
LJ

LJ is the only supplier that we use. Tried a bunch but LJ is always there and will be in business tomorrow and the next day. If a person is looking for a problem with a supplier he is certain of finding one. Good service good quality and fair prices.

Jack Cee
 

Tigerframes

Grumbler in Training
You are fooling yourself

Funny thing is, I used to be one of the bashers.

They sweet talked me into doing business with them.

I am now a Partner, and they have about 90% of my moulding sales.

I could easily make them 100% and feel good about it.

Anyone who absolutely refuses to do business with them is only hurting themselves.
Do you know how many customers are "Partners?" LJ tries to baffle customers like you with BS. Raise the prices in order to offer discounts. Just like at your local fireworks stand. Buy 10 get 10 free... Raise the price of the inital 10 in order to make up for the "free 10" you are getting. Business 101 my friend, and their customers are starting to wise up to it. I forget where your tag said where you were from, but picture a scenario where Larson was the only supplier available to you. How much of a discount do you think you would recieve then? You would be at their mercy. I will continue to support my local supplier.
 

Tigerframes

Grumbler in Training
I have a wonderful local supplier in KC, that provides excellent service and a wide variety of mouldings from Roma, Arquati, Studio, Omega, as well as some wonderful import lines that are extremely cost effective. I have no need for LJ. Even if the Documounts purchase doesn't effect you today, does not mean that it wont 6 months from now. LJ lost money hand over fist in 08' and have now decided to pull out all of the stops. I know it's my opinion, and I didn't mean to come off sounding like a d***, but sometimes enough is enough. :icon45:
 
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