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Where has all the Grumblers gone

Andrew Lenz Jr.

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
The thing that FB has going for it is that it's very "in your face". It reminds you all day long that your friend posted something in XYZ group. Or your friend commented on a post in ABC group. FB wants to be used—badly. It's often obnoxious.

The Grumble is not "in your face". If it followed the behavior of FB, most of us would probably close our Grumble accounts!!

Andrew
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Interesting how insults are used in various cultures....

Seeing an old friend, you might say "Hello you old *******. How are you doing?" It's an expression
of affection and most people would 'get it'. Conversely, saying "What's your game Pal?" Might be used
aggressively. Non-native English speakers can take such remarks the wrong way and FB is fairly universal.

It's a well-known internet phenomenon that without the benefit of body language innocent phrases can be
taken as grave slurs. That's why :)s are more than just a frivolity. 😉
 

Four Corners Jamie

Grumbler in Training
Well, here's a new complaint about the Grumble.

From a young woman:

"I refuse to join a group with a name like the Grumble. I dont care how much great info I may be missing. It's always been a terrible name. Pass."

LOL
As a young woman, newbie framer, I love the name. It's a draw for me. Go figure. As I have no history with the site and have no idea of the layers of drama apparently, I'm glad that this resource is here and that some of the old hands are back around. I look forward to exploring and learning.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
As a young woman, newbie framer, I love the name. It's a draw for me. Go figure. As I have no history with the site and have no idea of the layers of drama apparently, I'm glad that this resource is here and that some of the old hands are back around. I look forward to exploring and learning.
Hi, Jamie. Welcome to the Grumble! :)
 

Terry Hart cpf

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Not much to Grumble about I suppose but I think I've been around since '02? Maybe even before that. Haven't joined any fb framing groups.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
As a young woman, newbie framer, I love the name. It's a draw for me. Go figure. As I have no history with the site and have no idea of the layers of drama apparently, I'm glad that this resource is here and that some of the old hands are back around. I look forward to exploring and learning.
Hello Jamie, welcome to the Grumble. We like seeing new people because it means new and fresh ideas, thank you for coming. Joe
 

nikodeumus

Grumbler
Having just read this entire thread I thought I'd chime in.

I've been a "lurker" on the Grumble for years (not sure how to check, but I'd guess at least 6+ years) sponging up knowledge and insight from those with so much more experience.
I literally started posting only about 2 weeks ago, in the past I felt I had nothing useful to contribute.

I have been the sole employee of a very small frame shop in a relatively small town on the west coast of British Columbia.
The Grumble is THE most reliable source for every aspect of the framing business, that I have access to.
I don't exaggerate when I say that this small business would not be as successful as it has become without this invaluable resource.

I have improved my technical frame building skills, learned how to be more efficient/smart with production methods, and increased profits through business strategies. All gleaned from the Grumble.

My thanks to the owner for starting and maintaining the Grumble through all the ups and downs. As well as to those of you who are longtime (and new) members who offer sage advice and thoughtful opinions in a fun, open and respectful manner.

I would be lost without the Grumble.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I feel the same, when I started my own frame shop, over 10 years ago, I joined the Grumble and it is still my most helpful platform. Sure, the Facebook groups help too, but I wouldn’t have joined those if it wasn’t for all the connections I made right here.
The Grumble will always be home to me.
 

nikodeumus

Grumbler
Welcome newcomers! We need fresh blood in this industry.

Just remember, though, "Don't bleed on the artwork." ;)
Ha! I hear you...paper cuts from mat window cutouts - ARG! 😢
My Bandaid box overfloweth.
A great product is called Nick Relief Powder, plugs up them "gushers" real good.
Add a layer of electrical/duct tape, and get back at it! 👍
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Welcome newcomers! We need fresh blood in this industry.

Just remember, though, "Don't bleed on the artwork." ;)
The other day, our helper said, 'I did something you showed me! I accidentally bled a bit on the dust cover, so I used a Q-tip and took it off.' I told her it's a good thing it all came off, or we'd have had to charge the customer more. If TK's DNA was worth a bundle, hers certainly is.
 

MnSue

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I've been associated with the G for maybe 15 yrs..It was one of my "teachers" when I needed, and still need, to soak up knowledge from my peers. Thanks for being my friends :)
 

shayla

WOW Framer
HEY - that's my quote! (see below)
This brings a memory from 1992, of my first framing teacher. She said, 'The number one rule in our shop is, 'No blood on the artwork!'. The number two rule is, 'Don't hurt yourself'. It must be a common refrain. :)
 

shayla

WOW Framer
About midnight on Dec 22, I put a spot of blood on a multi opening (hand cut) mat. :cry:

A second, same color, mat, covered it up and actually tied the different size multi openings together.

Done, picked up and mentioned the extra design element at no extra charge.:cool:
I really want to call you Vlad now. If your name was Vlad DVieau, I bet you'd be even more famous.

Or is it Vlad Veau?
 

shayla

WOW Framer
I guess we've just figured out the real answer to the OG post question: "Where has all the Grumblers gone"?
They've all suffered 1000 paper cuts...
View attachment 31838
Is it the curse of TayTay !? 🙀
Yesterday, a lady said, 'You have bandaids on two fingers!'. I thought, 'Little do you know'. I sometimes have three on one hand. lol...
 

Framar

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Ya know, if you do happen to get a little dot of blood on a mat or on artwork, hit it with a q-tip dipped into hydrogen peroxide. If you can stand to walk away and leave it - it will foam up and the blood will disappear and you will be saved!

Do not wipe at it or touch it in any other way.

Hey, it can't hurt to try . . . ;)
 

artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Ah yes, the joy of suffering for our craft:rolleyes: I think sales of bandaids slumped when I retired.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Ah yes, the joy of suffering for our craft:rolleyes: I think sales of bandaids slumped when I retired.
I don't get cut that often, but when I do, I don't even use bandaids.
I have to wash my hands so often during the day that I just use toilet paper and masking tape for the paper cuts or whatever...:rolleyes:
(I know that masking tape isn't archival but, it's just my hands and not the artwork....:icon11:)
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I like to have longish fingernails, the better for peeling d/s tape and the like. I once nailed my thumbnail
to a frame with a point gun. It was very embarrassing. 😳
 

nikodeumus

Grumbler
Ya know, if you do happen to get a little dot of blood on a mat or on artwork, hit it with a q-tip dipped into hydrogen peroxide. If you can stand to walk away and leave it - it will foam up and the blood will disappear and you will be saved!

Do not wipe at it or touch it in any other way.

Hey, it can't hurt to try . . . ;)
Interesting idea, have you actually done this? I'm wondering if this would leave any kind of moisture mark on the mat surface after the blood has been dissolved. Surely there would be some kind of residue? I'm going to try it next time I get sliced.
 

nikodeumus

Grumbler
I like to have longish fingernails, the better for peeling d/s tape and the like. I once nailed my thumbnail
to a frame with a point gun. It was very embarrassing. 😳
You could have just claimed it was the newest fashion rage. Fingernail piercing! :D
I'm joking...but I bet if I searched for only a minute, it's probably already a thing people do.
 

nikodeumus

Grumbler
fnp.jpg
I knew it! Someone else had my million dollar idea!
Oh well, guess I'll stick to picture framing.
How could anybody do ANYTHING with their fingers, with these baubles hanging off them?
 

bobtnailer

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
I don't get to hang around online much these days, but I'm still here!

The only framing-oriented FB group I belong to is Framers Only. My wife saw it and did a big double-take...she thought it was the dating site for country folks! :fire:

I still love coming here when I get a chance, whether it's to ask a question or just browse. A ton of what y'all discuss is over my head, but I try to grab what I can!
 

bobtnailer

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Ya know, if you do happen to get a little dot of blood on a mat or on artwork, hit it with a q-tip dipped into hydrogen peroxide. If you can stand to walk away and leave it - it will foam up and the blood will disappear and you will be saved!

Do not wipe at it or touch it in any other way.

Hey, it can't hurt to try . . . ;)
Well, it might hurt a LITTLE.

I almost want to try this to see how well it works....

...with someone else's blood, of course. I prefer to keep mine inside.
 

nikodeumus

Grumbler
Ya know, if you do happen to get a little dot of blood on a mat or on artwork, hit it with a q-tip dipped into hydrogen peroxide. If you can stand to walk away and leave it - it will foam up and the blood will disappear and you will be saved!

Do not wipe at it or touch it in any other way.

Hey, it can't hurt to try . . . ;)
I tried the peroxide trick. Here's my results....
bleedy01.jpgOuchy:cry: Why is everything in my shop so sharp!?!?
bleedy02.jpgHmm...let see what happens?
bleedy03.jpg Science Bubbles !!! 😲
bleedy04.jpg Two passes with a brush dipped in peroxide, red goo is dissipating...


After an hour of drying, there is no sign of red, but there is still a slightly noticeable "water stain". (Couldn't get a good enough photo to show it)

With a little more experimenting this method might just save a matte project in a pinch.
Will try it on a coloured matte next time, and be a little less liberal with the amount of peroxide applied.

I wouldn't risk it on anyone's artwork unless absolutely necessary, (and only with their permission).
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I knew it! Someone else had my million dollar idea!
Oh well, guess I'll stick to picture framing.
How could anybody do ANYTHING with their fingers, with these baubles hanging off them?
In ancient China the nobles would grow their nails long and have ornate nail guards with dangly bits.
The idea was to demonstrate that they were so wealthy that they had servants to do everything for them,
so they didn't need to do manual work. They didn't go around joined to picture frames though. 🤣
 

nikodeumus

Grumbler
In ancient China the nobles would grow their nails long and have ornate nail guards with dangly bits.
The idea was to demonstrate that they were so wealthy that they had servants to do everything for them,
so they didn't need to do manual work. They didn't go around joined to picture frames though. 🤣
But what if one were to make itty bitty frames to dangle from one's fingers?
Then sit on your gilded throne snapping your fingers at your framing peons doing the work while you sip tea at your leisure. 🧐👑 Fancy!
 

Dirk

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
View attachment 31875
I knew it! Someone else had my million dollar idea!
Oh well, guess I'll stick to picture framing.
How could anybody do ANYTHING with their fingers, with these baubles hanging off them?
By the way, when you smash your finger and the blood starts to pool underneath the nail, don't use a twist drill to alleviate the throbbing pain. It generates too much heat and will cause more pain.
Get a needle from a syringe (I get them at a hardware store, not through a needle-exchange program), and with the tip on the nail, spin it back and forth until a little drop of blood appears. Then take a pair of diagonal cutters and clip enough of the tip off to ream the hole. Spin back and forth again and enjoy the relief.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
But what if one were to make itty bitty frames to dangle from one's fingers?
Then sit on your gilded throne snapping your fingers at your framing peons doing the work while you sip tea at your leisure. 🧐👑 Fancy!

Haven't you finished that multi-aperture mat yet. 😬

22f800a3c62ee28deac3891c001143ce.jpg
 

MerpsMom

<span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><
Haven't checked in for quite awhile. Thought of the G when stretching a so-called standard-sized canvas where the artist didn't paint up to his own pencil line. Cussed all the way through it. Hope all are well.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Haven't checked in for quite awhile. Thought of the G when stretching a so-called standard-sized canvas where the artist didn't paint up to his own pencil line. Cussed all the way through it. Hope all are well.
Hi! Long time no see. Yosemite Sam would be proud of your canvas cussing. :)
 

David Waldmann

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
The truth of the matter is that FB is a passing fad that many users will not use anymore for more reason than just one.
I am not an FB advocate, but that is not a truth. It's more like a hope. Unless you have an infallible crystal ball.

The FACT of the matter is that there are magnitudes more people on PFM related FB groups than there are forums. I only actively participate in two, and there are well over 2000 regular, active members between the two.

I will admit - I personally much prefer the forum style/flow/layout. It's much easier to find stuff and keep it organized. But the fact of the matter is, it's a changing world out there - if you want to stay alive you have to keep with it.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I am not an FB advocate, but that is not a truth. It's more like a hope. Unless you have an infallible crystal ball.
Sorry but I disagree. At one time FB was more important but more people are leaving FB every day, especially businesses. I agree there are more people on PFM related groups but if it was even 3 years ago there still would have been more. Check out these links:


and there are many other links that state the same. With FB, people looking for a framer has to know where and whom to look for - it is darn near useless for getting new customers. If you want to talk to another framer the Forum is the way to go, or email, or even the phone. I believe in restricted forums but that is hard to control. And I agree, "if you want to stay alive you have to keep with it" IMHO FB is no where near the answer and the proof is that more and more people are leaving FB daily.
 

David Waldmann

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
With FB, people looking for a framer has to know where and whom to look for - it is darn near useless for getting new customers.
We were talking about the shrinkage of TG, which is framers helping framers, not a marketing opportunity.

FB may well be losing overall market share, especially among the younger folk. But most framers are, should we say, not in that category. So, for framers helping framers, I stand by my statement that FB is where it's at. Both of the groups I belong to on FB are continuing to grow.
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
We were talking about the shrinkage of TG, which is framers helping framers, not a marketing opportunity.
No David, I was talking about FB being a passing fad as you so kindly quoted me. You then went to FB for framers, which I was a member of one but found it kind of useless and I didn't like all of the advertisement I was getting on my page. The main reason I dislike FB is that it is much harder to find a subject that your interested in for one and you spend to much time looking at back post to get that information. The other thing that really upset me was when one of the BB stores had a ad on my Facebook page, that was the straw that broke the camels back, then I do very little to none on my FB page. I believe that FB for framers will also be a passing fad no matter how many you may belong to.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
One thing it can help to remember is that this thread is on the Main Forum. Threads on the main forum can come up in public internet searches.
An example of this is the one from 2004 that comes up high in search results for 'Picture Framers Grumble'.

I would second the value of the archive on this forum. It's great, being able to search past topics.
 

DVieau2

PFG, Picture Framing God
I This link is 1 1/2 years old but may explain some dwindling numbers on the Grumble.

When I get to the bottom of the discussion I see that I've been doing it all wrong for 20 years because I call them "corner samples" :icon11:

 
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Keith L Hewitt

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I sure hope The Grumble continues.
Happy memories of Scarfy !
In this pic UK, USA, Australia & Ireland. Happy days

The original Scarfy got 2992 posts - Those were the days!
 

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