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Who Makes the Best Employees?

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I just went through the hiring process yet again. I have had many people in and out my door over the years, and have come to the conclusion certain types should be avoided. I have had some great employees, and some I never want to see in this life again. In my opinion, and this is only from my experience, artists should be avoided. I have fired no less than four. Unfortunatly, framing seems to attract artists like bees to honey. I have had great luck with retirees. I have found that if an individual has an aptitude for color and design, and likes to work with their hands, they can learn to work the design counter and/or frame. I also tend to stay away from people who say they can frame. I tried a couple of them, only to find they knew little. One was a frame shop employee for a number of years. Talk about trying to teach an old dog new tricks. I was wondering, from those of you who must go through the firing/hiring process, what kind of individual has worked best for you? I guess I'm trying to find a common thread that may be the key to finding a good employee.
 
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B. Newman

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
In reading Jack Stack's "The Great Game of Business", he says he looks for folks that were captains on their interamural (sp?) ball teams. They were "elected" by their peers, and that shows that they can relate well to others.

I have one good employee, but it didn't come through good interviewing. I'm still working on that.

Betty
 

tnframer408

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I've hired and managed people in multinational corporations most of my life. My best employees were always people I hired who knew more than I did. Hire for their talents. They always make you look better than you really are.

Same with the shop: I always hire artists, designers, decoraltors, people who know color balance, have excellent taste, etc. I can build. Anybody can build. But I feel my success comes from hiring extratalented designers and artists.

again, they know more than I do, I treat them as such, and everyone profits.
 

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Micael, how in the world do you hire someone who knows more than you? I know volumes more than anyone who has ever walked in my door for hire, and it has taken me 25 years to gain this knowledge.
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Hi Pam-Like Mike and you, we go through this process all too frequently. The root causes of this stems from the fact that, darn it, we don't pay a lot, offer great benefits or allow for much advancement. It's tough to keep great people with those factors working against us.

So, we look for those employees that can give us a few good years. Those that stick around longer are considered jewels and we try and treat them like family.

How do you find them? Often, it's just luck. But if there is one thing we consistently look for is great communication skills. We ask applicants to tell us a joke, any joke. If they open up and aren't embarrased, that's a plus. If they are not inclined to have fun and open up, it's just another sign. It doesn't automatically disqualify them any more than a real knee-slapper ensures them of a job. But it's the sum total of the intangibles.

Experience often is a negative. Retraining and getting rid of bad habits is usually harder than training from scratch,but it's a **** shoot at best.

After you make a decision, be as bold in getting rid of the less than acceptable employee. The process is tough, but not as tough as putting up with less than expected.

For the record, we have three employees with over 15 yrs, 7 with between 5-10 yrs, and only two with less than 3yrs. But that is about to change as we are loosing two employees. Once we get a good one (and we have been lucky) we treat them as well as possible, with the intangibles being as important as the "hard" benefits.
 

The King

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Pam, when I was an employee (not in framing) I was always certain I was smarter and more knowledgeable than my boss. That made me a less-than-ideal employee. When I was an employer, I thought (with a few exceptions) that my employees were lacking in fundamental good sense. That made me an undesireable boss. Now I work alone. I KNOW the boss is an idiot and the only employee is frequently inept, but I can live with it. I am content.
 

wpfay

Angry Badger
To some extent we're all in the same boat as Bob, not being able to offer huge carots to potential employees.
The folks that have come to me through the picture framing conduit have proven unsatisfactory. They tended to overstate their abilities and were dissatified with rote work.
Since I am in the trenches with them, it is important that we are to some extent compatable, but it is also important that they recognise my position as boss.
The 2 best employees I have had were both fresh out of photo school. They needed employment to keep them afloat until they were able to get their photo career going and I provided that knowing they had one foot out the door when they arrived. They were both very professional, and appreciated the exposure they had while here. Their photo training translated well into the skills needed in framing.
 

Less

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Nestles?
Hey, I use to work there.
I was OK when I started, now look what happened.

employee's perspective:
A company is only as good as the people I work with.

companies perspective:
The company is only as good as the people we work with.

customer's perspective:
A company is only as good as the person I work with.

Not sure what that means?
Treat everyone like they are your best customer!
Hey, Nestle taught me that.
Actually, a person who was an employee of Nestle taught me that. Thanks Pete!
 

unframed_mystery

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I've hired framers from every sort of employment history you can imagine. I'm not sure there's a certain 'type', although I do find that if everyone in the shop shares a similar personality things seem to run a little more smoothly.

If there was one quality I had to pinpoint, I would have to say a positive attitude, open-mindedness, a willingness to learn. Any reasonably intelligent person can be trained to do certain tasks, but motivation, initiative, etc. are definately necessary personality traits.

Take the time to ask questions during the interview that focus on these qualities, rather than actual 'framing ability'.

And yes, if they don't work out fairly soon, then they need to leave... :cool:
 

Curly's Mom

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Pam, I find the best employees are (dare I say it?) women! Sorry guys. But it's true. I agree that the artists and the "say they can frame" should be avoided, unless their personality seems right. I like to sit down for 15 minutes or so with a perspective employee and see if we "click". Do they relax, make eye contact, smile and even laugh? All great signs that they are a "people person". I also will hand them a tape measure and see if they can operate it. (I'm not kidding! Asked prospective employee to measure a print once... "15 and 2 little lines ...") One last thing, no visible body piercings (including tongue. I mean, what were they thinking?) or tatoos. Again, i'm not kidding! The employees that have had 'em in the past were all trouble and thankfully all gone now.
 

Rebecca

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Curly - You mean everyone doesn't use the "two little lines" system for measuring?!

Rebecca
 

Curly's Mom

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I've much higher standards. If she only said "15 and 4 little lines...", maybe then I would have hired her.
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
This should probably go under people not to hire but since we are on the subject. Basic math skills and reading a ruler is an absolute must.

One of the shops I used to work in had a basic math test and a ruler to read. I had an applicant who I really liked and the last thing we needed to do was have her take the test. She totally freaked about the test. She said tests made her very nervous and she wouldn't be able to pass. She failed it miserably except she could read the ruler. This person had such an outgoing personality. I thought we could work around the math thing. We were using fullcalc she could (I thought) read a ruler, and like I said she was one of the most outgoing people I had met.

She ended up being the biggest nightmare I ever hired. Even at the counter you still need to use math. Try teaching a 20 year old what half of 2 is much less 3-1/2. "Let's take the whole number first, what's half of 3? Huh?" Also that outgoing personality ended up being pure aggression. Her second day with us she burst into the back room swearing like a sailor and it all went downhill from there. She wasn't with me very long, but she sure left an indelible impression on me for future applicants.
 

unframed_mystery

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
This is an issue that probably only fellow Canadian grumblers can relate to: people graduating from high school these days have been taught strictly metric from kindergarten on. Try teaching them to use imperial system of measurement! We had a framer who was hired as a part-timer during her last year of high school. The measuring tape was the hugest challenge! Fortunately, she was enthusiastic and had a great personality; she was brilliant at the sales counter. Despite the metric issues early on, we were disappointed when she left the job to go to college.
 

PurplePerson1

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
When I was hired, I had to take a math test and prove I could do fractions, rulers, and how many 11x14 mat blanks I could get out of a 32x40 piece of mat. As I was educated in framing, there was a test each week.

We don't do that any more and I think it is a mistake. The last person hired would not have made it, and there would be many less mistakes.She has been there 5 years and basically does assembling, but still has to be trained regularly.
 

The King

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Purple Person, it sounds like you're about ready for the CPF exam.
 

Lance E

Member
Could it be that a good boss creates and moulds the best employees?
I realize that you need a good person to start with, however the past few employees we have taken on have been almost entirely rated by personality. Not necessarily experienced in the field they are chosen for either, and it's working well for us.
Product knowledge is paramount to any job and is the basic training that most bosses seem to gloss over by telling staff "do it this way" rather than presenting useful information regarding innapropriate methods and ensuring that the employee understands. A good grounding in product knowledge will result in better "common sense" decisions for unusual situations. Framing is renowned for weird requests, yet I continually meet employers in this industry (and others too) who try to keep "trade secrets" from their staff in case they learn too much and leave to open their own business.
 

jframe

<span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><
Purple Person,

Could you please elaborate on the training and testing you mentioned?
 

PurplePerson1

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Now, I am trying to remember from 8.5 years ago, and I lack memory cells on the spot. I can check on the book titles for you at work tomorrow.

When I was hired, I read from paper back books on framing (The Complete Framer, or something like that) They were red, green, etc. Then I practiced what I read and also I worked on the things I had been taught that week. When the week was over, my supervisor gave me a hand written test on everything I had covered that week. If I missed anything on the test, we worked on that until I had it right. It was not meant to be stressful, only a learning tool. This went on for about 6 months.

We did things that I only read about in Decor magazine today and in our new shop do not use, such as cooking rice paste, and doing v-grooves not on the computer cutter and not by cutting completely through the groves and then taping it all together. We also did inlay mats and cut glass by hand, just for the experience.

When the next person was hired, we only had a couple more tests and then it was done.

By the time Jana came that had been discontinued.

I think it was a very valuable experience. I wish more of that could be done in our shop today, but we have a new owner and things are different. We do a lot of new things and archival things, but most of it is picked up in magazines and on the Grumble. Jana and I are allowed to do anything inovative that we read about, but there is no one to really teach us, now. We have a lot more freedom to create and and experiment. However, I think the old fashion testing method was an experience I will never be sorry I had.
 

jframe

<span style="color: red"><b><i>Charter Member</i><
Thanks, Purple Person, that does seem like a good learning tool.
 

Tim Hayes.

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I have recently terminated my shop manager, when I let him go he explained that he knew it was coming and he said that he had not been doing the things I had told him to. I spent four months looking for a replacement. My search included asking sales reps., newspapers, asking other framers, national trade mags. Few qualified candidates surfaced. Mine is a medium sized shop and I will be opening a second location August 2003. One applicant who was qualified drove several hours hours to interview, subsequently we corresponded by phone and email. This person made a salary request of $70,000 per year. Needless to say I gave them an additional $30,000 signing bonus, my car, my house and hired them on the spot---- NOT!

The new man has several years experience but not much with computers. I spent four months looking
with not the best of success. How long should it take for someone to get up to speed?

In regards to regular employees it seems like there is a real shortage. I get responses from applicants 1)who bring English speaking relatives to translate for them, 2) do not comprehend the concept of picture framing, 3) I had one person explain that they were too heavy and could only work sitting down.

Mine is a clean spacious shop with current equipment and a friendly work atmosphere. It is sometimes bewildering with the lack of people who are willing to work.

Sorry about the vent!
 

unframed_mystery

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Have you tried posting your available job at your local college/university? While a student might not be available full-time, he/she would at least be reasonably educated, presumably speak english, and not expect to earn $70,000 per year. The right college student would be enthusiastic and bring some energy into your shop. They are often great at the sales counter after getting some training. :cool:
 

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Well, I asked for advice, and I got it. I guess I really need it, because the person I hired lasted one day! He called this a.m. and told me he had another offer he was accepting. What? Better than moi? So, according to everyone I have to look for an intelligent, inexperienced, open-minded, desperately-in-need-of a job, literate, articulate, willing-to-learn, not-an-artist female with no tatoos or piercings who knows math and will look me right in the eye and tell me a joke. Plus, they have to be neat, punctual and willing to work the hours I need. On top of all this, they have to be compatible with me. Okay! I can do this!
 

Hobbes03

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hi Pam,
Just curious, what is it about artists that's a problem. I see in your first post that apparently you've had some bad experiences with them. I would think their background would be very compatable with framing. Shouldn't they have a good sense of color harmony, porportion, balance, design? I'm not disagreeing with your view, just want to know what your experience has been.

-Mike.
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Mike, I know you asked Pam but here is my spin. It seems that most (not all) artists I have hired in the past (of which there have been a lot)seem to mainly want to be there for the chance to use the equipment. I hate to generalize, but I can't tell you how many times I've hired an art student and the first thing out of their mouths is "Can I come in and use the mat cutter for myself?" "Do I have to pay full price?" "Can I have the scraps for free?" I have no problem with giving framers all the perks in the world, but I always cringe when it is the first thing they express an interest in. I'm happier when they learn the craft first. Then I'm more than glad to dole out some perks. I have had way more than a couple of artists get hired on and before you know it they have some sort of show to do and they start to frame the heck out of everything and then they are gone.

I also haven't found artists' to be the best of sellers either. I think since most of them are "starving" they want to do everything on the cheap. Plus I think they tend to undersell because all they see is the art so they want to minimalize.

I have had some great employees that were artists, so like I said I hate to generalize. The environments I have worked in I had anywhere from ten to fifteen employees at any given time. I couldn't be there all the time to watch everybody. When people came to work carrying art tubes or portfolios I was always hugely disappointed. I always had to be concerned with loss prevention issues.

Now that I have my own store when it is time to hire an employee I will look for somebody I can trust first, like second(there's nothing wrong with being able to tell a good joke). Obviously you need people that do have a good color sense and at least a love of art to be a well rounded employee. I'll follow Ellens' credo, "Take what you want".............just my opinion.
 

Hobbes03

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hi Kathy,
Thanks for your take on my query. I can see your points, fortunately I don't have to worry about hiring people, just me, myself and I, and that for me is quite enough!


-Mike.
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Mike, I am so blissfully happy to not have any employees right now. My whole life I have always been in charge of something. I always thought I was a good boss. I adapted very well to all kinds of people and felt I could always inspire people to do good work. I can orchestrate and cajole, I can create a team spirit. When I ended up at Michael's it really took a team leader to keep that hampster wheel moving. I think I could have given Bossy Ellen a run at her title.

I tell you what, the last couple of years I was a boss at Michael's changed my mind on all that. It was one big freak show of one goofball after another. I had no support from anybody above me. When I stepped down from my position I swore I would never hire anybody again. I couldn't train another soul to save my life. I totally and irrevocably gave up my crown and it was the best thing I ever did. They thought I needed a rest and I would step back up after the holidays. (I stepped down the 1st of October, I'm no fool.) They tried to give the shop back to me and I absolutely refused. I told them I would stay on and be in charge of production only. I would not be involved in training, scheduling or hiring. They met my terms because they really couldn't afford to lose me.

Obviously hiring for your own business you have total control. I have had so many good people work for me in the past. I do think my opinion of the workforce that is out there has been so skewed by my experience that I will be very wary the first time at bat. This is my livelihood. The effects of hiring the wrong person could be so devastating.
 

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Mike: Artist #1 came from another shop(worked there for 15 years). She always late for work, took 1hr. lunches, and didn't do any work, to speak of. The person she worked with said she always looked busy, but accomplished nothing. She would leave the store and visit with the neighboring establishments. She was older than I, and didn't want to take my advice. She didn't show up for work for three days and somehow thought she had a job when she did show up. #2 was always sick and couldn't get along with her fellow workers #3 and 4 made too many mistakes, both in pricing and writing up orders. One was always sick (monthly thing), and the other suffered from depression (called in sick for two months). I had one artist who left on his own, and did the worst framing imaginable, even with my help. I had one artist who left and opened her own shop, but not locally. I have one with an art background working for me now who is working out well. I think you can see why I am nervous about hiring more artists. I have had other employees form other backgrounds and never had had the problems I seem to encounter from this one group of people. But then again, I think my people-picking skills need some work.
 

Hobbes03

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hi Pam,
I think people-picking is in itself an art. I used to be in supervision for a furniture manufacturer and had to interview/hire people (which I absolutely loathed). You never really knew what you were getting even if they had an outstanding interview. After hiring someone, then seeing their performance, most times I thought, that CAN'T be the same person I interviewed! People can have a way of making a good impression during the interview then turn out to be a bad apple.
What I can't believe is that artist #1 that you spoke of, lasted 15 yrs at the other shop. What's up with that! Try not to get discouraged, you will eventually find the perfect fit you are looking for (easy for me to say!).

-Mike.

p.s. Congratulations on your first place award, saw it in PF Magazine, nice job!
 

Terri M

Grumbler
Ok, I have to jump in here. From the Employee side:
I have heard it said a lot that some folks will not hire someone with experience, that they are "too hard to retrain". I hope this doesn't apply to someone who is a CPF.
I am a CPF, but do not have my own shop. (Someday, when my husband is out of the military). Until then, I go job hunting every 3 years.
It has amazed me the amount of frame shop owners out there that don't know what a CPF is (even when I say "Certified Picture Framer") one told me that they just didn't have time to go to the framing school to get their certificate. They believed that if you go to Larson-Juhl's framing school that is a CPF certification.
It is hard for me, a potential employee to try and educate someone who has their own shop.
And I started my framing career as an art student going to college. Got a job in a frame shop, loved it and was taught by 2 very professional framers who took me under their wing and showed me the correct way of doing things, along with the shortcuts.
I have since gotten my certification, and I believe in aquiring as much knowledge about my chosen profession as possible. Not all employers seem to appreciate that, but I keep plugging on. I have been blessed with working for/with a great boss in the past who was open-minded about learning and encouraged me to do so. It amazed us that some folks seem so close minded to new ideas.
When I start looking for a job, I try to start out at shops that are PPFA affiliated, because I figure they will know what my CPF stands for, but is hasn't necessarily gotten me better pay or benefits. The bottom line of most frame shops is that they don't pay employees a whole lot, or in some cases what they are actually worth. But for me, I am learning at each shop I work in, how to run a shop and in some cases how NOT to run a shop. I would love to make lots of money, but the reality seems to be that only the owner can profit from the business (my experience only-I am not trying to catagorize all of you!) I work for what they can pay me, and if I get my personal framing at a discount, that means a lot to me. I consider it a benefit, especially if that is all I get, no paid days, no sick days, etc. From my experience most shops cannot afford to give these kind of benefits. And since I am usually only in one place for 3 years, that seems to be a reason to NOT offer me any kind of benefits.
I will continue to do my job to the best of my ability, because I take pride in what I do. I realize not every employee is like that, but that is the way I see things, and I would hope that if I came knocking on any of your doors looking for a job, you would at least give me a chance.

Thanks for letting me vent, from the employee side.
Terri
 

Terri M

Grumbler
Oh, I forgot to add that I always approach my prospective employer about a 30 day trial period. If at anytime during the first 30 days, I don't seem like a fit or it is not working out, no bad feelings. I would think all businesses should have a policy like this when it comes to hiring, because you usually know in the first week (or 2 days) if someone can do what they said they could in the interview. Then there is no surprise when the new hire doesn't work out and you have to say "Goodbye".
Again, just my humble opinion.
Terri
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Terri is certainly correct when she states that most (I'm sure almost all) owners do pay what they can afford. Who can afford more than they are able?

But, it speaks volumes about how little most owners make, also. You hear it time and time again how this is a low paying industry and how often people aren't in it for the money.

And the biggest reason is because too many just won't embrace good business practices. It's changing, but there is a long way to go. Making money is no crime and if there ever was a true trickle-down theory, it would follow owners earnings to employees earnings.

My suggestion to Terri as she looks for her next job when her husband relocates-Look for the most successful shop you can find and apply there first. Those that make the most will probably be able to pay the most. Every successful owner I know will gladly pay whatever a person is worth if it will make them more money. And exercise that 30 day option for you, too. Employees should be just as happy working in a job as the employeer is to have them.

It really does work both ways. But what makes someone successful in this trade might be a great quality to seek. They are doing something right. See if maybe you are a fit.

This doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of good fits in all size (and level of success) shops. But if I were going to make a search, I would start at the best, first.

When I talk to the Rob's, the Marc's, the Jay's of our industry the overwhelming constant is how fortunate we all are to have the great staffs we have. How we couldn't do it without them. And how truly appreciative we/they are, not withstanding the once in a while problem that is just unavoidable.

So maybe Who Makes the Best Employees? Maybe a good start would be with the Best Employeers. And if success is created by great employees, look for successful employeers
 

Curly's Mom

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Originally posted by PAMELA DESIMONE,CPF:
... Better than moi? So, according to everyone I have to look for an intelligent, inexperienced, open-minded, desperately-in-need-of a job, literate, articulate, willing-to-learn, not-an-artist female with no tatoos or piercings who knows math and will look me right in the eye and tell me a joke. Plus, they have to be neat, punctual and willing to work the hours I need. On top of all this, they have to be compatible with me. Okay! I can do this!
Pam are you against "Cloning"?
 

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Believe me Curly, the wish has crossed my mind from time to time, but another me running around? I don't know if my family could stand it. I wish to let everyone know I have read all of this thread, and hope that the suggestions giving will help me, before, during, and after the hiring process. I have had numerous successful hirings in the past, but the bad ones always seem to stick out. The people I currently have have been with me 12 years, 3 years, and 1 1/2 years. Two of them came to me looking for jobs. It is frustrating because I have to go through so many bad ones before I find a good one. I'm hoping this thread helped.
 

minuteman

Grumbler in Training
Pam, what would you say a framer (CPF) is worth with 20 years experience; a fine art/graphic design/advertising education; retail management experience; frame shop design and construction; trade recognition (awards, magazine feature articles) and wholesale sales experience?
What would you say someone is worth with no art or framing experience?
There is a very small pool of potential employers for the experienced applicant in this "industry". As noted by an earlier post most frame shops would be intimidated by the level of skill and knowledge of many experienced applicants. Unfortunately many framers are not only using Sprague Hathaway Pricing Charts (1970's), they are also paying the same wages.
Yes, finding good help is difficult but imagine trying to find a frame shop to work for as a skilled framer and primary income earner.
As my father once told me ,"The opportunity is not in the job, it's in the man". Then he told me to get the **** out of bed and mow the lawn.
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Hey Minuteman, I guess I shouldn't take the bait, you don't even have a serious profile, but here goes.

Having been in the position to hire framers for 16 years I have an opinion on the subject. I believe there comes a point where you pay for the job not the experience. Unfortunately framing doesn't pay well. That is one reason I was stuck managing in a less than ideal environment. I couldn't find anybody to hire me for what I perceived as my "skill level".

Your experience doesn't intimidate me, I just simply can't afford to pay for it. It is called being over qualified. When your qualifications reach a certain level you are priced out of the market. I never resented the people who couldn't afford me. I knew I had picked a profession that has only so many monetary rewards.

The answer? Move on, change careers or become the owner. I'd like to think that when I am ready for employees I can pay them well but I know if you came to me with all your qualifications I know I couldn't pay you what you deserve.
 

minuteman

Grumbler in Training
Dear emibub, your tough love advice to the experienced and skilled picture framers to move on or get out may be sound advice for some frame shop owners as well. My scenario was that of an employee posing the question of worth not my "perceived" skill level. In an industry that is pushing for certification and professional standards, it's ironic that it wouldn't or couldn't reward highly skilled employees, that once they do achieve a higher level they should leave the industry or hang a shingle.
You assume you couldn't afford this type of experience when my question was what is it worth, not if you could afford it. As to my serious profile... my hobbies are hobbies, I like what I like, and my work as a picture framer is my livelihood and that of my family's. I hope that someday your business will thrive and you are able to pay your employees what they deserve.
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Minuteman, I guess I am looking at this too much from a HR point of view. Let's say you were filling a position where you were looking for experience. You have two candidates, one with five years more experience than the other. They both have identical skills, they both have kept up on their careers as far as education. I know the market pays say $30,000 per year. I would offer both candidates the same amount of money. I don't think the candidate who has more time on the job deserves more. The job pays $30,000, why would I offer more?

I've seen too many cases where an employee stays in the same position for so long that they max out. There is nowhere to go unless they move up or out. In our industry there just isn't that much room for advancement, you are either the indian or the chief. Most frameshops don't need chiefs.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be rewarded as you grow and learn. But, there does come a point where there is nowhere to go. The only advancement available is to possibly go to a shop that has higher sales or to go into management or to start your own shop so you can be the chief.
There comes a time where I simply cannot pay you what you are worth. I think as a whole frameshops tend to be small with not much growth potential.

I do agree with you that the framing industry does need to advance their way of thinking or they will disappear also. But if you don't like the way the people you work for do things I would say the next step would be going out on your own.

To borrow Dancinbears signature "Peace" I meant no harm. :cool:
 

minuteman

Grumbler in Training
emibub, and there it is....stronger business leads to higher sales or profits leads to better employees leads to higher sales and profits leads to better opportunities... There is no simple solution in a niche field with so many indians becoming chiefs. We end up with small reservations and few strong nations.
Today is a good day to die. ( Little Big Man )
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
The solution is incredibly simple-It's the execution that's the tough part. That's why so few have done it successfully
 

gemsmom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
As a FYI, the three good employees I have now all came to me with no experience-I trained them. The few with "experience" I hired did not work out (see artist #1 and #2). The 12 year employee has worked her way up and now owns a condo, and drives a new car. She gets three weeks paid vacation, has health insurance and a retirement plan. The other full-timer has the same benifits, just shorter vacation time and a lower pay. My help also get sales incentives. The part-timer makes $8.50 hr. He works three days a week, and is retired. If someone comes to me with no experience, I pay $8.50 to start and see how they work out. That is how my second full-timer started. I really think I offer my employees a good starting point, and I do all I can to try to make it work. Right now I am looking for a part-timer for the design counter only. I'm not even looking for a framer, just someone with a good color and design sense. So far, no good candidates, and very few resumes. Am I doing something wrong, or is the job market that tight?
 
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