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Who uses fractions like this???

Discussion in 'The Grumble' started by FramerKat, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    My math skills can handle fractions but for mat cutting I use 1/2+1/4-1/16 instead of using 1 11/16. Find it easier to go to the half inch mark, move to the next quarter inch and back off a sixteenth. Like when carpenters cut and measure by fat and skinny and under. As in eight foot three inches and a fat quarter.
     
  2. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Getting a bit off-kilter I think and it's probably my fault as usual. Fractions can be Metric or Imperial. You can just a well have 19/50 of a meter. :confused:

    Anyway, I always cut pizzas in quarters as I can't eat six pieces on my own. :D
     
    David Waldmann likes this.
  3. FramerKat

    FramerKat CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Same here...we just add a + or - to the 1/8" increment...meaning plus or minus a sixteenth :).
     
    Bob Doyle likes this.
  4. couture's gallery

    couture's gallery PFG, Picture Framing God

    So I guess that is why a 2x4 is 1.5" x 3.5." eh?
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  5. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    No, a 2x4 is 1.5" x 3.5" because that's the dimension you can reliably net after drying and milling.
     
  6. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Is that a long sixteenth or a short one? :confused:
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  7. FramerKat

    FramerKat CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    Ha! I've always wondered about that...makes me especially nutty when I'm buying wood for a framing project...and have to go round and round with a big box employee over what the EXACT dimensions of the lumber are... :confused:
     
  8. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    It is like meat, the weight before cooking, wood is the measurement before planning / sanding.

    Oops I see bob already answered this.
    Second edit, it was David, I am gonna have to cut down on the beer.
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  9. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Why? 'tis better to be wrong once in a while than to cut back on the liquid bread...
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  10. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I have had quite a bit of liquid bread now, I seem to be getting wronger by the minute :)
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  11. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Why don't they saw wood a bit bigger to start with so that it can be planed down to e.g. dead 2 x 3 inches?
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  12. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    To get dead on dimensions you buy in quarters like 5/4 being 1 1/4"
     
  13. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Because you're buying 3 x 2 pse not 3 x 2, the planning and sanding is an extra they have added to the 2 x 3.
     
  14. Steve Collins

    Steve Collins SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Too imprecise to give a single answer.
     
  15. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    "They" do - they saw it at 2 x 4 to make 1.5 x 3.5. It's been determined through both engineering and practical experience that 1.5 x 3.5 is structurally sufficient for most residential applications.

    However, you can (with enough time, effort and experience) find material to finish as just about any reasonable dimension you can come up with.

    To finish at 2" you need 10/4 which is sawn at about 2.75". Once dry it will be about 2.5 - 2.6". If you pick the ones that didn't warp too much, and you're careful, you might be able to net 2.25". But to make a consistent, moderately flat/straight product you will need to plan on a 2.0" finish.

    On a related note, in the US only softwoods are cut to predetermined sizes, typically in 2" increments i.e. 4,6,8,10,12 Once you get over 12" they usually step down to 1" increments). Hardwood is cut to garner every smidge, so you will find pieces of any and every size, i.e. 4.25, 5.625, even 7.6875 (this is in the rough). So if you want to net a full 3.0" or 4.0" you just need to sort through the pile and pick out the ones that are straight enough to make that, understanding that you may end up wasting more than you want, for instance using a 5.125" board for a 4.0" because it won't clean up at 5.0".
     
    FramerKat and Grey Owl like this.
  16. FramerKat

    FramerKat CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I think I need some liquid bread after reading some of these comments ;).
     
  17. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    A cask holding 72 pints of beer is a firkin. A barrel hold 4 firkins. A half-barrel is a kilderkin or two firkins. Six firkins is a hogshead or one and a half barrels.

    ;)
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  18. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Yeah, okay, but how many kilograms per light year is that?
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  19. Larry Peterson

    Larry Peterson PFG, Picture Framing God

    Its 23 Newtons/meter squared.
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  20. Jeff Rodier

    Jeff Rodier SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    The most important question is how many figs are in a Newton
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  21. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Who cares? Pass the peanuts. :D
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  22. Steve Collins

    Steve Collins SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Actually the difference is 5.5 dozen, or 792
     
  23. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Isn't 5.5 dozen 66?
     
  24. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    792

    Showing my work:

    six dozen dozen
    6 * 12 * 12 = 864

    half a dozen dozen
    .5 x 12 x 12 = 72

    864 - 72 = 792.
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  25. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Ahhhhh I c, it definitely helps if you read the question first, I still have no concept of what you're on about, chiefly cos I still ain't read the question :), It definitely looks like you ate right though
     
  26. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    A lot of people would initially think "Haha! Not fooling me. The answer is zero as six and half-a dozen are the same."

    o_O

    And then there is the Baker's Dozen which is 13. It's so-called as at one period in history there were severe penalties for bakers who sold short weights in bread loaves. Very hard to make loaves all the same weight. So to be on the safe side if someone bought a dozen loaves they would chuck in an extra one.

    Wasn't that interesting? :rolleyes:
     
  27. Keith L Hewitt

    Keith L Hewitt SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Wasn't that interesting? :rolleyes:
    =================

    Peter .... Are you still wearing the socks Chickie knitted for you ? <<<<< Now that what I call interesting !
     
  28. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    They are in the wash at present. :D
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  29. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Ugh! Gross! :p
     
  30. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I'm sorry, that is incorrect!

    You neglected to diagram your work with geometric blobs according to Common Core standards.
     
    FramerKat likes this.
  31. David Waldmann

    David Waldmann SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Common what? When I went to school (walking 12 miles each way, uphill there and back, through 6 feet of snow),
    1+1=2,
    1-1=0,
    1*1=1
    1/1=1.

    Anything more advanced in principle was largely unnecessary for daily life.

    Nevertheless, we have a basic math test for all job applicants that doesn't even go as far as the above (we don't bother with division), and a good share of people "forget" to complete the application once they see the test.

    So my question is, what is "Common Core" and how is it any better than what Dick and Jane learned in 2nd grade?
     
  32. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    In the latest edition, Dick is going through a gender identity crisis while Jane is being denied access to the segregated male/female bathroom of her choice.

    Spot has "behavioral issues" because he was adopted from an evil Republican capitalist's puppy mill who erroneously believed that the genetic manipulation of Chihuahuas and Plott Hound genes would result in a new breed of family friendly animal.

    Puff is a progressive and cannot understand why the rest of the cat community won't recognize her intellectual superiority and bow to her wishes.

    Mother and Father are in the midst of a cantankerous divorce over custody of Tim, the Teddy Bear.
     
  33. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    David, from what I can gather and surmise Common Core is trying to teach critical thinking skills and relationships between numbers. I think that they are trying to make learning higher math like Calculus easier. Problem being that they are trying to teach everyone by the same method, not by what works best for the person.

    From what I see when adding 7 + 9 the concept is that adding 5 and 10 is easy so 7=5+2 and 9 = 10-1 So 7 + 9 = (5+2) +(10-1) = (10+5) +(2-1) = 15 + 2 - 1 =16.

    We like to rag on it but how is it different from the way we add fractions on the mat cutter? 2 + 1/2 + 1/4 -1/16? I just don't see how everyone has to be forced to learn this way. I was a math wiz, did everything in my head, really "got" math. I knew others didn't and I didn't try to make then do math the way I did. And when someone asked me for help I tried to make it relatable to them, didn't try to find out how to change their thinking to match mine. Money, animals, cards or baseball stats whatever the person understood I tried to link their math lessons to that. Helped make some good money in college as a tutor :) Common Core would have killed me in high school but would have insured a ton of tutoring money in college helping others learn math the right way :)
     
  34. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Yes it is Bob, it is to make kids think about the numbers and their relationship to other number, it makes it easier to see how more complex maths work, definitely a good thing.
     
  35. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    When I was a skool we had to learn our 'times tables'. An recite them en mass out loud in class. How many Grumblers did that? :rolleyes:

    All together now....

    one one is one
    two ones are two
    three ones are three....o_O
     
  36. neilframer

    neilframer PFG, Picture Framing God

    When I was in school we had to turn in "table papers" every day of the week.
    We had to write down all of the multiplication tables up to 12 x 12.
    We also had to turn in table papers for every week day of summer recess or you would be in big trouble.
    We hated it back then but it's part of why I can do math in my head without having to use a calculator.;)

    Of course, back then we used stone tablets to do the table papers...:p
     
    artfolio likes this.
  37. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I started school in '59 I think. :rolleyes:

    We didn't use stone tablets, but it wasn't so long before that date that school kids would be given a roofing slate and a piece of chalk to do their writings on. And when school ended they had to go up a long ladder and put it back on the roof..... No! That's last one is a big fib. Even so, after a certain age you graduated from pencils and crayons to a proper ink pen. The ones you have to dip in ink. All the desks had inkwells. One child was designated 'ink monitor' and had the great job of filling up all the inkwells. Ballpoint pens were treated with massive contempt by the teachers. I still can't do joined up writing. :oops:
    In the 70's I worked with an old guy who would have been about the age I am now. He was a great character. Worked on the land all his life and was a big beefy kind of man. Huge red nose and arms like Popeye with big gnarled hands the size of ham-hocks. But he could do the most exquisite copperplate writing. Many people asked him how he learned to write like that. He told them that when he was at school you did it right or you got a wack on the head. That was the way things were done in them there days.
     
  38. IFGL

    IFGL SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Learning your x table is just memory, although it is very useful, you aren't working anything out, the new system is to get the kids brain working and thinking about what they are doing.
     
  39. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I used to know how to use a log table. Now I have no idea what logs are used for.
     
  40. Larry Peterson

    Larry Peterson PFG, Picture Framing God

    To heck with logs; I can't remember what log log tables are used for.
     
  41. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Logs were devised by a Scottish mathematician called Napier I do believe. I've no idea what use they are either.:rolleyes:

    I was better at history than math. :D
     
  42. Keith L Hewitt

    Keith L Hewitt SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    Prospero - School slates !
    In 1967 - 1972 I worked in Jamaica and one of the items we imported was "Artificial School Slates"
    Made from a shiny black board, so the chalk would rub off easily. Think they were made in Portugal.
    We also imported seconds of newsprint from Newsprint Speciality Corp at Three Rivers in Canada which was used in the local shops to wrap loose food. All before the invention of the plastic bag.
     
  43. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    They had artificial schools in Jamaica? Well you learn something new every day. ;)

    When I was at school two of the classrooms had open fires. Sometimes you had to go out with a bucket and fetch some coal. :rolleyes:
     
  44. tedh

    tedh PFG, Picture Framing God

    That's nothing. When I was at school we used asbestos as modelling paste. Mixed it with water and sculpted all sorts of stuff. Licked it, breathed, it, had it everywhere.
     
  45. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Ya learn sum'min ev'ry day.

    I always thought logs were invented by a Scottish guy named, Caber, who tossed them around just for jollies. Who knew?
     
  46. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    I remember the "gazinta" tables.

    Three gazinta twelve four times; Five gazinta fifteen three times; etc.

    Great times those ... o_O
     
  47. Pat Murphey

    Pat Murphey SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    Right! So a kid in a store will make change with Common Core math...
     
  48. Bob Doyle

    Bob Doyle SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    That is probably part of the intent Pat, so you are right. If a kid is confronted with 65¢ change to make they will know that they can make that with w quarters a dime and a nickel, a quarter and 4 dimes or some other combination of coins they have instead of being stumped like the No Child Left Behind kids are.
     
  49. prospero

    prospero SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    We used to play happily for hours with a bottle of mercury in the science lab. :eek:

    It never affected me though. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  50. Bill Henry-

    Bill Henry- SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God

    A few years ago, a town in Maine (? Freeport) had an ecological awakening and decided they would voluntarily eliminate mercury-type, fever thermometers. They got a local pharmacy to sponsor a "buy-back" wherein if people would turn in their old thermometers the could get the newer temple scanners at a discount.

    Apparently, it was reasonably successful in that hundreds of the mercury thermometers were turned in. The town's selectmen, with great fanfare, decided it would be good public relations if they ceremoniously dumped them all in a landfill, broke them up, and buried them with a bulldozer. They did.

    Someone later realized the mistake and they had to call the EPA to clean up the toxic dump site. :oops:
     
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