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Wholesale Moulding Supplier Selling On Ebay

arstis

Grumbler
How would you feel about one of your wholesale suppliers selling all their product on Ebay at a little more than you are paying wholesale.

Ebay Store: Moulding Frame Supply Liquidators
http://stores.ebay.com/Moulding-Frame-Supply-Liquidators_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm

AKA www.buyfoamboard.com. This domain is owned by Anthony Lenardo who works in Southern Moulding's Accounting Department in Kennesaw GA.

I haven't approached the sales rep about this yet. It just don't set right with me.
 
888

stud d

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I will try to be nice. There are many suppliers that sell like this or they have a wholesale framing department. It is not new. Is it right? I think not. Will people continue to buy from them? Of course.

Now as far as thier moulding goes...

PL
 

xenniferx

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
This isn't too much of a surprise considering Southern sells to customers without a storefront anyway. :fire:

><
 

DLB

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
This isn't too much of a surprise considering Southern sells to customers without a storefront anyway. :fire:

><
What does that have to do with price of eggs in China? Just because you don't have a storefront, doesn't mean you're not a legitimate business. Are you just a clinger when it comes to the "Us vs. Them" in the retail based vs. home based framers? :bdh:

Anyway....back onto subject. I see one of my vendors do that all the time. Business owners coming into their showroom and simply because the business owner has a tax id number (say they own a legal firm), they can have them do all their office framing for them on the wholesale pricing. Will I stop using them? No. My relationship is too strong with them. Do I like it? No. What are you gonna do?

dave.
 

xenniferx

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Attack me if you want, but them selling to people doing framing at home is a nice way to downgrade our industry.

People who do framing from their homes are often doing poor work for not much money. Then people who, "used to know someone who did it from their house," come to get something framed at a retail store, they can't understand how I'm asking for, "THAT MUCH," to frame their art.

><
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
Way too many generalities. The best way to handle this tired subject is the suppliers should qualify each business. As is, visit the business and see if it is set up as a business with dedicated space to conduct business. Qualify them with amount they spend also. I'm willing to bet there are some homebased biz's that do a decent volume. What you want to weed out are the nickel and dime people who are purchasing a frame here or there for their own use.

It is highly insulting to suggest all homebased businness's should be excluded. Especially on this board, we have many homebased people right here on the G who contribute quite a bit.

For the record, I am not homebased.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Yeah I've been watching that account for a few years. I always wondered who they were. Highly annoying. Thanks for posting.

For what it's worth, I tried selling some metal chops on eBay back when you could sell them for decent money and I got all my auctions shut down. I talked to someone from eBay one-on-one, not over the computer, and he explained that I could not offer frame moulding and then ask the customer what size they wanted it to be, it's called a "choice auction" and it against their terms of service. They said that if I wanted to sell frame chops I had to list a separate auction for every size I wanted to sell... they make more on listing fees this way. Impractical at best, and since I was doing it for fun, I said screw it. So, anyway, if you're truly irritated at this guy at least you can probably get some of his auctions shut down. I say probably because eBay is not very consistent with enforcement of their rules. I just know I can't sell it that way.

Oh, and it would be a cold day in #### before I ever purchased from that company.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Oh, I see who they are, if you're correct. I was just about to take on their wedding signature mats... called for pricing but just haven't made out the purchase order. I see that this eBay seller is selling the same mats. Chance of me now taking on this line = 0.0%

Again, thank you for posting.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
I had taken a particular interest in this account because when I used to sell different non-framing related products there was a seller who would undercut everyone and I wondered how in the world they got the product so cheap. They started with "ty" too and we're from the same area of the country. I was wondering if this was the same guy. I suppose there is a chance that if he works in their accounting dept. that Southern Moulding doesn't even know about this.
 

Luddite

PFG, Picture Framing God
Attack me if you want, but them selling to people doing framing at home is a nice way to downgrade our industry.

People who do framing from their homes are often doing poor work for not much money. Then people who, "used to know someone who did it from their house," come to get something framed at a retail store, they can't understand how I'm asking for, "THAT MUCH," to frame their art.

><
S`cuse me? Gee... just because I live and work on the same piece of real estate makes me an illegitamate/lousy business? Could someone tell the IRS and my accountant that?!! I pay business tax in three states plus federal(I also co-own a PERMANENT showroom in the Atl. mechandise mart).NO ONE seems to giva a rat`s a** where I do the job,they just care that I do my job,and pay my taxes etc.Having a fed# IS reason enough to get wholesale,just because there is no storefront involved doesn`t mean that we are undeucated morons.PLENTY of storefront businesses are purveyors of really bad work,I`ve seen it!! It is interesting to note that for the most part,it is only the framing industry that has these "hang ups" about who they will sell to,most gift,furniture,and holiday wholesale(I am one of them) are friendly,honest companies that don`t care about the real estate.My biggest wholesale headaches are actually the big stores !They are freaking hard to get to pay on-time,or sometimes at all.The little mom/pops,conversly are some of our most reliable customers,they pay on time,and re order frequently.As for the quality of artwork,I suppose I should ignore the 60 peer review,peoples choice,national and international awards I have,because I don`t rent/lease a separate chunk of real estate?!(It is kinda ironic that everyone was oogling LJ`s Country living article,because EVERY other company in that issue is home based,and therefore" non communicado" to them....) L.R.
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
I see that this eBay seller is selling the same mats. Chance of me now taking on this line = 0.0%
Again, thank you for posting.
I I suppose there is a chance that if he works in their accounting dept. that Southern Moulding doesn't even know about this.


I was also looking at bringing in those signature mats, so as to have something different that people would come into a frameshop for. Why go to a frameshop when you can go to eBay, they must be cheaper, right?

Maybe this whole thread should get forwarded to SM and see if they are behind it, or if the employee in accounting is using his discount to buy and sell. I would be concerned if this was an employee doing it on the side that there wasn't a "five fingered discount" involved.
 

FTP

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Well I looked to see what they sold and to whom. It looks like they really only sell ATG tape, framers points and sawtooth hangers.
Pretty much to Photographers and hobby people.
One buyer was disappointed because they received 96 sawtooth hangers instead of 100. Sounds like they will be out of business in no time!!!!!!!
 

Peter Ackerman

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
a question

I am not a proponent of wholesalers selling direct to the public at wholesale. However, if a wholesaler were to use Ebay to sell at well above the wholesale price reserved for the trade would this get your blessing? I do not know about moulding, but there are large amounts of framing tools available on Ebay. Is it wrong for a wholesaler to compete in this market if prices are retail and not wholesale. I know I cannot compete on Logan mat cutters on Ebay. I am just wondering, is there harm in looking for new markets when our industry is on downturn? I for one do not condone the practice of wholesale to the public but at retail pricing on supplies, I can see no harm.
 

Emibub

PFG, Picture Framing God
I see no problem with it. You have my blessing Peter. Go forth and prosper!:thumbsup:
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
I for one do not condone the practice of wholesale to the public but at retail pricing on supplies, I can see no harm.

Peter, in this age of internet is is possible for just about anyone to find the source of a product.

I sell gift items as well in my store and all a customer usually has to do is look at packaging for website info. If not there, they Goggle the product name and they can get to the source. If my source is going to sell to the public it had better be at full retail plus shipping and handling. If they are discounting, they no longer are in my store. Even if they are hiding thru a front company and are drastically selling below retail they won't last long in my store, because they themselves have decreased demand for the product at a retail level. Now if a customer has to pay $9.95 for the product retail and $6.95 S&H on-line, then my price of $9.95 or even $10.95 is more appealing.

I may be wrong, but it seems that most items that you would sell, don't really have a MSRP. You would need to mark them up at least keystone or more IMO.
 

mayos

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
We run into this ALL the time in the clothing industry. Many times it's offered for sale on the internet at a price lower than we pay for it. We also have mfgs. who place a suggested retail price on their item that is shipped to stores and then sell it on the internet at 25 - 30% off that price. The way I figure it's their business and they can run their business as they please. Just as it's my perogative to buy my goods from whom I want. I tend to stay away from vendors who compete with me unless it's a very hot category that sells well regardless of the price (there aren't many of those around anymore though).
 

Whynot

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Don't get mad, people, get wise instead. Nobody forces you to do business the way it was done for the last 100 years or so. Retailers-wholesalers? Those are realities with uncertain forms and future, nothing written in stone. They were perfect forms but maybe are not anymore. The Internet is changing everything in the world, including the way we do commerce. Please, don't act as if retailing is the promise land of commerce for you. If the Internet will prove instrumental in eliminating wholesalers or retailers, they won't resist for too long. Note the changes and go with them, use them in your favor.

I am not saying that this is exactly what will happen but, for your sake, open your eyes and become creative, find individual solutions instead of waiting for collective ones because Framing, Retailing or States Soveragnity for instance grew organically into what they are today and nothing is eternal. If any of them became obsolet for social and historic progress, they would disappear faster than they appeared. We live in a fluide world of constant changes and adaptations, if you didn't notice it as yet, and the roller coaster trip has just began to catch speed. Retailing is in for a deep, lengthy rocking. Street commerce as you know it awaits for a huge change and will probably disappear and be replaced with something else. But not tomorrow, though. And that's the good news. There is still time to watch and adapt accordingly. Don't think like precursors did some over 100 yrs ago about steam boats or cars and airplanes never been capable of replacing the horse and the air balloons. Common sense is useless in times of profond changes. Intuition is better. Cars, airplanes, computers and the Internet entered the world as SFictions and here they are to have us adapting to their realities, not the other way around.
 

Susan L. Young

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Attack me if you want, but them selling to people doing framing at home is a nice way to downgrade our industry.

People who do framing from their homes are often doing poor work for not much money. Then people who, "used to know someone who did it from their house," come to get something framed at a retail store, they can't understand how I'm asking for, "THAT MUCH," to frame their art.

><
Excuse the highjacking here guys, but an important point needs to be made here. If you are a storefront retailer and have trouble explaining to customers why your product is worth more than 'poor work' done by someone else your problem is not home-based framers. Perhaps you should SHOW them why your product is better than the 'poor quality' ones. They've come to you for a reason, give them the quality and positive experience they crave.
 

GUMBY GCF

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Back to the question
If they are sell at a keystone or at least a 50% mark up to what they sell whole sale it is reasonable competition.
That is my guide lines if it is lower I look for sources else where.

PS I have looked at their line & mats for over a year trying to figure how to fit them in but guess I won't have to do that any more. Just tossed the catalog.
Any company that feels they need to compete with their wholesale customers can do it with out our help.
They have a right to do business however they want. When they create shadow companies or shadow names so their current customers won't find out.

We should start a section where we can all post what manufactures/wholesalers compete with there own retailer accounts
But then again who really cares.
 

Whynot

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
How is a supplier of yours competing with you when selling on the internet? Are you selling on the internet (e-bay) too and, in case the answer is yes, does that make the internet your "territory"? I told you that the internet changes the way business is done, didn't I? The internet makes it possible for a wholesaler or a manufacturer to sell retail, if profitable, without opening a store and really compete with one of you.

Classic street retailers are exactly that, and their competitors are defined geographically. On the Internet business and competition are different animals than what we knew and retail-wholesale classification appeas obsolete. For instance, you share on TG your knowledge and give support to other framers exactly because they are perceived to be not your competitors. How come then a supplier is your competition for selling "retail" on the internet? And what is "retail" in this case? The fact that the vendor is profitable and able to satisfy consumers directly, at a lower price than expensive (classic) retailers, is a crime? Consumers will vote with their credit cards what product, for how much and from whom they want to buy. Retailers came into existence and stay in business at consumers merci and no protection from other than their clients is going to help them survive. Are your costumers buying on the internet? Hm, then perhaps you need be there too instead of crying unfair competition. If they don't, why bother then? Think about it.
 

tleonardo1

Grumbler in Training
Tony Leonardo's Reply to the Thread

All,

To make sure all facts are correct I am posting the facts firsthand. Please read the entire post. I am surprised at how much bandwidth this post has gotten over a few supplies sold on ebay, yet the fact that many distributors/manufacturers compete DIRECTLY with frame shops is grossly ignored/overlooked.

I now work for Southern Moulding. When I started selling 10 years ago on ebay I did not. For the last 4 years I have increased the product line to include most moulding and framing supply items after signing a purchase agreement with Southern Moulding. The fact that I am now an employee of Southern (1 year ago I started) is now somewhat irrelevant, this business was in place before I ever worked here. (I did this as a side hobby as I worked for a fortune 500 company.)

If you look at length mouldings they are marked up 50% over LIST wholesale pricing. The money is made on the spread. Moulding by the foot is even higher, and the customer pays shipping.

Supplies are more than wholesale and more importantly, almost all products are available from multiple other vendors on ebay as well. If I were the only supplier I could understand the frustration, but the reality is that there are multiple suppliers of ATG Tape, Sawtooth hangers, Foamboard, Matboard etc already on ebay, all I am doing is trying to grab a fair share of what is already being sold there. Again, do searches on ebay and you will see these items are available from many suppliers, if I withdraw my items simply because I am an employee of Southern will not change any of the fears that ebay is damaging your business, the supplies are already out there.

I understand why some framers would be upset with seeing this on the internet, but the reality is that it is somewhat of a myopic paranoia. The truth is that the methods of doing business have changed entirely over the last decades. Lines between manufacturers/distributor-wholesalers/retailers have become marred at best. As a distributor Southern faces the same challenges you face with suppliers online or on ebay.

I don't see framers worried about manufacturers bypassing distributors to sell direct to retail framers. Many large manufacturers/distributors in the business sell direct to retail accounts, home decorators/interior decorators and even are involved in owning picture framing operations, yet no one seems to be too bothered by this.

I know many framers in the Southeast that buy LARGE amounts of mouldings and supplies from distributors that OWN their own retail stores in the same market they deliver to, or own their own PICTURE FRAMING operation in the same market they deliver to. If you are worried about a few thousand dollars sold on ebay a month, you should be panicked at the fact that other wholesalers sell tens of thousands of dollars of framed artwork (some CUSTOM FRAMED) to your very customers. If you are worried about ATG tape and Sawtooths on ebay you are losing sight of the bigger picture.

Take a look at the Framing Shoppe in Alabama, Thompson stores in Georgia/Alabama, take a look at G&G Moulding's website, they sell framed art on it, and they sell it out of their walk in framing operation (and out of trucks to businesses). International offers custom framing out of most of their distribution operations including ones purchased in last year. Designer and Nielsen sell precut metal segments to retail stores... this takes away from a custom framer.

Roma and Thompson have showrooms in furniture markets that sell to interior decorators, this is business that should belong to custom framers, yet they sell direct to your potential end customer. They are much bigger threat to your business that lowly supplies

What about Crescent and Bainbridge selling premade shadowboxes or precut conservation grade mats to the Photo Industry which are often home based photographers? How many photographers have a storefront/studio? Yet they can buy wholesale priced precut conservation grade mats from multiple manufacturers. One of the largest ready made suppliers in GA sells direct to anyone with a tax id (who does not have one?) out of their location, yet no one seems to care about it.

Larson helped set up Joann's in the industry, this is a new competitor to all frame shops. Do you believe you get anywhere near the pricing Joann's pays from Larson? Again, their threat to your business eclipses the small quantity of hardware/supplies sold on ebay.

I manually deal with all ebay orders and I can assure you more than 80% of them go to the scrapbooking or gift industry anyway. These people normally buy from other industries or stores like Dick Blick. And of the overall sales less than 5% are in moulding. About 50% of the sales are ATG tape and Sawtooths. These two products don't impact your business at all since most retailers don't resell these products anyway.

I will gladly take questions from anyone on the board via email.

Thank you.

Tony
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Man oh man I can't wait until I make enough money to be rid of this retarded industry.
 

tleonardo1

Grumbler in Training
Update from Framer World-Signature Mats Removed from Ebay

All,

I went ahead and talked to several framers I truly respect and based on their feedback I went ahead and removed the Signature Mats from ebay.

They mentioned that supplies (ATG Tape, Sawtooths etc) are not a concern since there are so many suppliers out there for those items. However the framed mats are a direct afront to their business since it is a finished product, and this is a valid and true concern. In the past I have steared away from any framed artwork and this should have been the same. I just got so excited about the new metal mat that I violated a principle I had held onto (no finished goods).

Thank you to those of you who provided the feedback online/offline.

Look forward to more emails and feedback......

Tony
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
How is a supplier of yours competing with you when selling on the INTERNET? Are you selling on the INTERNET (e-bay) too and, in case the answer is yes, does that make the INTERNET your "territory"? I told you that the INTERNET changes the way business is done, didn't I? The INTERNET makes it possible for a wholesaler or a manufacturer to sell retail, if profitable, without opening a store and really compete with one of you.
Q. How is a supplier of yours competing with you when selling on the INTERNET?

A. Let's see, the retailer has invested in a store front with all associated costs. The customer comes in so they can "see & touch" the product and pick our brains for more info. Then they Goggle it, and find a supplier selling it for less than retail. That is the problem.

You might argue that it's a free market system. The problem with a wholesaler selling at less than retail to the general public is that he is buying/producing the product for less than what a retailer can, so there is no way to compete. If a wholeseller wants to sell on the net, then sell at full retail and protect your wholesale customers.

Q. Are you selling on the INTERNET (e-bay) too and, in case the answer is yes, does that make the INTERNET your "territory"?

A. Obviously there is not protected territory on eBay or the INTERNET. Stated again the problem is that if the retailer is buying a wholesale widget for $2.00 and needs to keystone or more to cover legitimate business costs. (for example lets say MSRP $4.95) and then we find the wholesaler offering it for $3.00 on the net. Now we have a problem.

Q. The INTERNET makes it possible for a wholesaler or a manufacturer to sell retail, if profitable, without opening a store and really compete with one of you.

A. Exactly! They don't have retail overhead. They are buying for less than wholesale / selling for less than retail. It works for them now, when all of the traditional retail outlets are gone because of this, and the customer has nowhere to "see & touch" the product, they might just have to open up retail stores themselves and bear all of the same costs that the retailer does now.

And just to put it into terms that might hit home (I may never be in a league to actually sell your beautiful frames Cornel, and this is not a slam against you or your excellent workmanship and old world craft) But if a retailer framer had invested in your samples and quoted a customer on one of your frames, for say a $1,000. retail and then the customer looked your frame up on the web and found you offering it to them direct for $600 - 7 -$800, that would be a problem now. If some other gent, not associated with you in any way was doing the same thing on the net, paid the same wholesale based on volume and had found a way to reduce his costs that would be a different story and fair competition in my mind.
 

JohnR

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Framingsupplies.com has been selling everything from foamboard to professional framing equipment over the interent to anyone with a credit card for years.

I'd not fret over this too much. Years ago, I tried putting together my own frames with household tools. After a lot of cussing, bent nails and gaping miters, I wondered why I was putting myself through this. I still had to have the mats cut. The average joe ain't going to spend a bunch on tools to do a few frames. They will head for the local framer.

What hurts your small framing business is probably what is hurting other small business these days.
 

Luddite

PFG, Picture Framing God
This is everywhere...

Another example from the gift/holiday market. I co-own and do the designs for a holiday decor company(www.decenberdiamonds.com). Anyhow, there are people selling them on ebay,and we have several internet only(NO store) customers.Although we are not undercutting wholesale wise,some are selling below what we would like to see.There is even one on-line store that has bought the domain name of one of OUR collections,and is selling under that name! People often ask if it is us,and why is it less than we would retail for.Are we cheesed? yes.Is it illegal/actionable?possibly.But it is business.We don`t worry about it that much,and it hasn`t hurt the bottom line,so its not worth popping a vessel over.I suspect that the customers that would normally be coming into your shops would anyhow,because even if they ordered the frames custom made on the web,they still have to mat and fit the art.How many one timers would want /know how to do that?While we are at that,look how many folks offer matting on ebay! L.R.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Man oh man I can't wait until I make enough money to be rid of this retarded industry.
If you're talking about retirement, best wishes for a long and happy one.

If you're talking about turning to another industry, keep in mind that ours is really not all that bad. The other three industries I know about personally are all much more complicated, convoluted, and confounding than framing.
 

Luddite

PFG, Picture Framing God
YEAH, Try the holiday& home decor design,manufacturing importing, industry..."Whaddya mean I have to predict/design what`ll sell... 6 months from now?"! L.R.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
If you're talking about retirement, best wishes for a long and happy one.

If you're talking about turning to another industry, keep in mind that ours is really not all that bad. The other three industries I know about personally are all much more complicated, convoluted, and confounding than framing.
No, definitely retirement. I'm too old to start something new and I think most will agree that there isn't another company dumb enough to hire me. The times, they aren't a changin.. they done changed. Our sales have been up nicely, but despite my ego telling me it's my hard work I know that it's because so many competitors have gone busto. Won't last forever. Thank you for the well-wishes.
 

mayos

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Hey Luddite....you ought to try the clothing industry....we'd making firm committments 9 months out for merchandise. Colors, sizes, quantities all have to be committed for 6 - 9 months out, or you don't get anything desirable. It's absolutely nuts, and very stressful.

As Jim said there's a lot of industries more screwed up than framing. Our apparel companies provide us nothing, absolutely nothing other than the product we buy. No samples, no coop advertising, and barely a civil person at the end of the customer service telephone number. Even their salesmen have to purchase their own samples. It's really refreshing to have a support community and suppliers who know that it takes some cooperation to sell our product and help both ends be successful.
 

Susan L. Young

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
All,

I went ahead and talked to several framers I truly respect and based on their feedback I went ahead and removed the Signature Mats from ebay.

They mentioned that supplies (ATG Tape, Sawtooths etc) are not a concern since there are so many suppliers out there for those items. However the framed mats are a direct afront to their business since it is a finished product, and this is a valid and true concern. In the past I have steared away from any framed artwork and this should have been the same. I just got so excited about the new metal mat that I violated a principle I had held onto (no finished goods).

Thank you to those of you who provided the feedback online/offline.

Look forward to more emails and feedback......

Tony
Gosh, a supplier who IS truly listening to framing retailers and willing to change course and react to a bad call and correct it. What a concept.

I can personally state that I know that Tony wants feedback and wants to foster good working relationships with framers.
 

j Paul

PFG, Picture Framing God
All,



I now work for Southern Moulding. When I started selling 10 years ago on ebay I did not. For the last 4 years I have increased the product line to include most moulding and framing supply items after signing a purchase agreement with Southern Moulding. The fact that I am now an employee of Southern

Tony
Gosh, a supplier who IS truly listening to framing retailers and willing to change course and react to a bad call and correct it. What a concept.

I can personally state that I know that Tony wants feedback and wants to foster good working relationships with framers.


Susan, if I read the above correctly, Tony works for SM and is doing this as a side line business. SM has not stepped up and said anything about this. I would still be concerned that Tony as an employee might be buying better than an independent frame shop can.
 

arstis

Grumbler
Susan, if I read the above correctly, Tony works for SM and is doing this as a side line business. SM has not stepped up and said anything about this. I would still be concerned that Tony as an employee might be buying better than an independent frame shop can.
Tony Leonardo works for Southern Moulding in sales department. I think he is speaking on behalf of Southern Moulding.


I feel wholesalers have to live up to some standard as to their selling practices. If wholesalers are pissing off their big clients to make a few bucks on EBay. What do you think will happen? Their big clients are going to be dropping like flies. In Southern Mouldings catalog it clearly state they are a wholesaler and to purchase from them you have to have a business license and a resale tax number. Yes I know this can be done easily.

I spent about $20,000 with Southern last year. If they want my business they will have to at least honor their own selling terms. They make me honor their terms.

And yes we all know about JFM and their selling practices, I quit buying from because they claim to be a wholesaler to the trade but they sell to anyone they can drag in the door.

Tony, the only problem I have is the moulding. If you were selling at retail price it would be fine. But you are selling box moulding at a little more than I pay for the same box, that makes the price per foot less than your base list price. This is not good!

Tony, you said you are not selling much moulding on EBay.. well take it off!
 

gemini

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Tony has brought up the most important issue and it seems to be lost in this discussion for the most part.

Any retail, home-base framer, wholesale (OEM) framer who is buying from the companies Tony mentioned (i.e. International Mldg.) is supporting those said companies in their pursuit of the same retail dollars you are chasing.
That is direct competition. They're picking your pocket and cash drawer at the same time. Wise up.

Quit speculating that someone selling moulding or supplies is competing with you. Retailing has changed drastically as Cornel pointed out.
I could care less if Tony is buying moulding and reselling it, his customer is not your customer nor is he my customer. His customer would never grace your threshold in the first place.

Pay attention to the aspects of your business you can control, not the distractions you can't control.
 

Franchesca

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I think it's fine...keeps the riff-raff, artist-types and "cheapies" out of my hair. I don't "usually" make a profit off those that shop eBay anyway. At least I have a place I can refer them to. Yeay Free enterprise! Custom framing IS a luxury item, and those that want to DIY get charged $80 per hour to "fix" what they've messed up. After that...they come to me to do it right the first time. PLUS...I pick up and deliver. I have 4 instances of this happening the past 6 months.

Not to mention...if a supplier is out of stock...I could fall back on them.
 

arstis

Grumbler
It would be different if Southern went into the retail market by opening retail stores around the country like International Moulding has Thompson's Frame & Gallery, Larson-Juhl has a deal with Joann's. Thompson's, Joann's non of them are going to sell length moulding at 50% below wholesale list price like you are. #312322 you are selling on EBay by the box at $1.25 per foot and your wholesale list price is $2.50 per foot, this is not selling in the retail market it backstabbing your clients.

#312322 cost me $1.12 per foot by the box. Do you really expect us to believe that Southern is not behind this Ebay site, or are you really dumb enough to sell a box of moulding at a .13 cent per foot markup?
 

stud d

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Wow this is sort of amazing. I have never known the ties that these companies have with others. Well I knew the LJ stuff with Joanns and Michaels. I think it is humourous that this person is in sales and finds it fine to do. I like that artis put the prices up here so we can really see what is taking place.

I guess it is ok if you sell to the public at a higher rate, not .13$ that is not retail. I would say atleast double. But wait I do not agree with that. So they retail and wholesale, so they make more money, because they cut out the framer their customer. The person who they advertise and try to get they work to upset? Sounds smart to me. So I guess that I am saying it is wrong. Yes I am.

Some of these companies have in stock issue and yet they are selling retail and wholesale? makes sense to me. Sell to joepublic for a few dollars more and not be able to fill an order for the reliable customer?

Seems like it is time to reevaluate a few companies I buy from on a regular basis.

PL
 

Jerry Ervin

PFG, Picture Framing God
Thank you arstis. You gave a perfect example of what I have been trying to tell these folks for a couple years now. This is but one example.

For those of you that think this is OK or it is 'just business' deserve to have your pocket picked.

It is unethical in every sense of the word to both retail AND wholesale.
 

mayos

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I just want to echo the sentiment of the others on this subject. I don't mind a supplier selling moulding, etc on Ebay or other internet sites. I don't really like it, but it's not any different than having a competitor down the street. But really torques me off is when they sell it at cost or below. If you're going to sell on the internet, sell it at a reasonable markup.

With all the discounting being done on everything.....there has to be a "legitimate" price on merchandise somewhere. If an internet supplier/big box/ or other discounter advertises constantly that this particular item is $8.99 compared to $15.00 "elsewhere" and all the "elsewhere" retailers no longer continue to carry the discounted item, there's no price for the discounter to compare to any longer. The discounter's price becomes the new highest price for the item. So there no longer is any "legitmate" price for the discounter to run a comparision. That's why I try to do business with firms that offer me legitimate pricing and if they sell directly to the public, don't undercut me on pricing.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hmmmm.... there is always food service. Could always get into food service instead. Unfortunately I'm not Greek....
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
No wait! I'll go work for a Fortune 500 company. Over the last decade as I've been involved with eBay as a hobby and participated in several related online communities the one thing I've learned is to run screaming every time someone who is potentially shady says "I used to work for a Fortune 500 company" when describing themselves. But it happens so much that I'm sure there are plently of jobs available. Just gotta lower my standards a bit.
 

johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Besides, eBay just announced the biggest price increase in their history to take effect in a month or so. This just after they announce a 24% increase in profits last year to $346 million. So, basically, it's getting to the point where eBay and it's sellers deserve each other. It's also cheaper now, percentage wise, to pay rent in a physical store than it is to pay Ebay their fees.
 

mayos

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I have a friend who sells used band instruments on Ebay.....man, with the commission and the pay pal charges....they take about all you may make on the deal.
 

Natalya Murphy

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
There is even one on-line store that has bought the domain name of one of OUR collections,and is selling under that name! People often ask if it is us,and why is it less than we would retail for.Are we cheesed? yes.Is it illegal/actionable?possibly.
If your company owns the trademark to the collection then there's a very good chance it's illegal and you may be able to get the domain name from the seller. Look up "domain infringement" in your favorite search engine. Here's one article to get you started.

http://www.keytlaw.com/urls/udrp.htm

Also see "Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Protection_Act
 

BILL WARD

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
"unethical in every sense of the word to both retail AND wholesale"

does it kinda remind you of tk's situation with his 'licensed' dealers---gouge 'em for the privilege !!!!!!!!!! suck em dry with fees!!!!!! THEN open his own stores in direct competition with 'em!!!!!!!! :party:

still, it does make me marvel at how they can still get 4k-5k for those prints and another couple of k's for the overdone/uninspired framing.........:shrug:
 

Luddite

PFG, Picture Framing God
If your company owns the trademark to the collection then there's a very good chance it's illegal and you may be able to get the domain name from the seller. Look up "domain infringement" in your favorite search engine. Here's one article to get you started.

http://www.keytlaw.com/urls/udrp.htm

Also see "Anticybersquatting Consumer Protection Act":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anticybersquatting_Consumer_Protection_Act
We looked into it..Didn`t seem worth it(not MY dept..I DESIGN the stuff..)apparently.We did ,however buy the rights to other collection names,and are watching to see when this guy`s is up for renewal,so we can beat him to it,hopefully.
 
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