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Yodle for online advertising?

Discussion in 'Picture Framing Business Issues' started by Natalya Murphy, Feb 15, 2008.

  1. Natalya Murphy

    Natalya Murphy CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    I contacted Yodle after reading DLB's follow-up post about a business using Yodle for online advertising. They tell me they have framers who are using their pay-per-click advertising services, so I thought I'd see if anyone on here is using them, and if you'd be willing to share your experiences.

    Some interesting info I got from the sales rep that called me:

    According to their statistics there is a 40-50% conversion rate for customers who call inquiring about framing services. She also said that if you can't allocate at least $200 a month to online advertising then it probably wouldn't be worthwhile to use their service because you wouldn't generate enough clicks and therefore not enough calls to justify the expense. She also told me that, assuming an investment of $600 a month I could expect $1200 of profit as a result. Pretty nice performance, but I'd like to hear from someone to find out if it's for real.

    They charge $875 to create a website for you. This is waived if you already have a site. There's also a $57/month fee for using their services, and there's no contract -- renewal is on a monthly basis.
    American Picture Frame Academy 1-888-840-9605

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  2. wpfay

    wpfay Angry Badger

    Anyone that makes such predictions is suspect from the get go. How can they possibly say that without knowing very intimate knowledge of your business? What's the old saying? 95% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Caveat Emptor!
  3. Natalya Murphy

    Natalya Murphy CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2

    She used the following formulas to come up with that number, based on their industry statistics for framers:

    $600 pay-per-click advertising per month would generate 40-50 calls in our geographic area

    At a 40% conversion rate, that would be 40 x .4 = 16 customers actually making a purchase.

    Assuming $75 profit on a $150 order, that comes to 16 orders x $75 profit/order = $1200 framing profit. Take away the $600 + $57 invested in advertising and you have net profit of $543. Now, if the frame package comes to more than $150 then there's more profit.

    Of course, the big question here is whether that kind of budget really would translate to that many calls, AND whether there really is a 40% conversion rate from an initial call.
  4. Richard Darling

    Richard Darling SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    I'm no expert on internet advertising, but it seems to me that pay-per-click advertising is somewhat overrated. You'll get lots of clicks, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a closing ratio that would match what you might get through YP or something else. You're also open to fraudulent clicks.

    $600 per month generating 40-50 calls? Thats $12-15 per click. That's expensive IMHO.

    I would ask for contact numbers for the framers she said had done so well. Then ask them a few questions to determine if there market is enough like your market to make it worthwhile.

    I have never heard of Yodle. How do potential customers find them to find you?
  5. Jay H

    Jay H PFG, Picture Framing God

    WOW THATS AMAZING! 40% conversion rate! Why would anybody ever do any other type of advertising? If I get a 10% conversion rate from direct mail to existing customers, I'm thrilled to death.

    Write this in stone. "That lady is a big fat liar." I'm with Wally.

    I had one of those newpaper vultures (my nickname for ad salespeople) give me this huge 20 page printout on MY business. It showed that there is something like 2 million dollars a year being spent on framing in my market. Since I'm one of 3 shops and if hobby lobby is doing 1/2 the business, my sales should be 1/2 million a year. SINCE my sales are that then I should spend 10% of advertising and she proposed a contract of about 50k a year..........I think you know how this ended.

    You have run into the same type of salesperson.

    Carry on.
  6. CAframer

    CAframer SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    While there is definitely a time and place for Pay Per Click (PPC) there is also a view that normal Search Engine Optimization (SEO) provides a better long term ROI. To that end, here are three quotes from a 2006 Search Engine User Behavior Study:

    1. Only 11% of advertisers report generating higher ROI from their paid listings than their organic search engine listings
    2. Generating a high ROI is so difficult for advertiser's using Pay Per Click search engine marketing because consumers recognize the difference between a paid listing and an organic search engine listing
    3. 80% of searchers report that they never click on sponsored ads
    The biggest benefit of pay per click is that it may provide an immediate boost of qualified visitors. The reason for conducting a natural search engine optimization campaign is to significantly increase your margins over the long term.
  7. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    I'm not sure what to say, Natalia. I have never paid a penny for search rankings or online advertising, except the useless required ads that the Yellow Pages forces us to take. And they've got a surprise coming this spring when we cut back. We come up number one in simple searches in our area, and I'm pleased with that. I work on the rankings on and off, and check them at least once a week.

    Once one has a somewhat mature web site, there are simple things one can do to improve rankings, and none of them cost anything. I would rather start a site with a simple template, and work on keywords, meta tags, content, and page titles, than pay per click. Yelp has been hounding me to purchase pay per click for a couple of years now, and I have resisted. If you do it right you really don't need to pay for web advertising or rankings.

    40% conversion rate? Oh please. What does that mean? I can get a great 40% click through rate on Constant Contact, but does that mean that 40% of those clicks actually generate business? NO.
  8. Jerry Ervin

    Jerry Ervin PFG, Picture Framing God

    One thing that doesn't work very well with 'pay-per-click' advertising is geography. When I was learning SEO and trying to tweak my website for the search engines, there was a frame shop in New Jersey that kept popping up on the paid advertising portion of Google when searching 'picture framing concord nc'. Now how many folks is going to drive that far to get something framed? NC to NJ for a frame? Probably none. That shop wasted whatever amount of money they spend on it. I saw it quite a bit as I was trying to narrow down my search terms. They had a nice looking website, but it was for a one location independent shop.

    As for the 40% conversion rate, I always ask the buzzards.. I mean salespeople to put that in writing and give me a money back guarantee. So far, I have never had one willing to do so.
  9. Paul N

    Paul N In Corner

    Some "ranking booster" companies hire temps whose sole job is to click on certain links 1000 times per day to drive up revenue and give a semblance of how they're improving the click ratio.

    Lots of scams and slippery people making a living in those companies.
  10. AWG

    AWG SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer

    We had a rep recently stop by to pitch their product - had all sorts of charts and graphs, showing how many clicks and visits to a particular competitor's website they had generated, how great those would be for his business, yadda yadda.
    You should've seen the rep's face when I told him that shop had been out of business for nearly a year...

    BTW Kirstie - curious about "required" YP web listings. We've never purchased it - regardless of how hard they push - are you sure they're required??
  11. Kirstie

    Kirstie PFG, Picture Framing God

    This is a VERY funny story!
    No, I'm not sure about the requirement. Our renewal is coming up soon, so it's been a year. We are cutting back on everything and allocating advertising funds in other directions.
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