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Frame Cost Calculator

Petula

Grumbler in Training
Messages
4
Hi all! We are using a very well-loved and old frame cost calculator. We want something we can use manually, not on the computer. Does anyone have any idea where to get new ones? I have asked our framing supply distributors and also looked on eBay...no luck. Thanks in advance for any leads!
 

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Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,123
You could build it yourself in a spreadsheet.
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,123

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,123
BTW, the manual calculator doesn't take into account any waste. The manual calculator estimates 9' for a 23x24" frame with moulding 1.5" wide. That only allows for a waste factor of 1%. With a 10% waste factor, it would require 9' 9".
 

JWB9999999

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
1,813
And I seem to remember being told multiple times that the industry standard for moulding waste is 22% or 23%. That has always seemed high to me, so I think we use 17% or 19% in our POS system.
 
Jack Richeson & Co

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,123
And I seem to remember being told multiple times that the industry standard for moulding waste is 22% or 23%. That has always seemed high to me, so I think we use 17% or 19% in our POS system.
It all depends on the moulding and stick length. I've found that 10% is just about right for most moulding in full 9.5' length. If you are getting your moulding cut in half for shipping, then 15-20% might be better.

When I use frame sealing tape on a moulding, I calculate the length with a 10% waste factor and then apply the tape to the moulding before cutting and joining it on my EMN-12. I give it an extra few inches just in case I am wrong but using 10% works out pretty well.

Another factor is your saw or chopper. A chopper will have less length than most saws. On my EMN-12 it chews up about an extra inch on each cut due to the space between the blades.
 

JFeig

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
4,480
Ah, an old slide rule style analog computer. An archaic tool. It is most likely not available as new. You might catch a used one on Ebay.
 

IFGL

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
3,626
Ah, an old slide rule style analog computer. An archaic tool. It is most likely not available as new. You might catch a used one on Ebay.
Wouldn't it be amazing if this was the first computer to become sentient, I think it might be time for my pills.
 

Mike Labbe

Forum Support Team Administrator
Team member
Messages
12,028
Hi all! We are using a very well-loved and old frame cost calculator. We want something we can use manually, not on the computer. Does anyone have any idea where to get new ones? I have asked our framing supply distributors and also looked on eBay...no luck. Thanks in advance for any leads!
Wow cool. That's gotta be almost 50 years old. It mentions "WATS LINES", which was a phone term used from 1967-1976 or so.

Hopefully it isn't giving pricing advice, because prices change weekly and they don't go down :)

Computers are just another tool in the toolbox, and nothing to fear. I urge ya to reconsider.
 

cvm

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
7,117
I might have a couple in a cache of stuff I got from an old frame shop. Want me to look?
 
Jack Richeson & Co

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
4,638
A "Waste Factor" is somewhat useful, but only as an estimate. There are a number of variables that go into calculating how much moulding you need to order (versus what you will actually use in the best case scenario) for a given project.

For example, the most basic calculation of how much moulding is used for a 24x36 (Critical Dimension) is Perimeter (24+24+36+36) + Allowance (1/8-inch x 8 = 1/-inch) + (8 x Moulding Width).

The 1/2 inch provides the Standard 1/8-inch Allowance.

When making a frame, an amount equal to the width of the moulding is lost with each of the eight miter cuts required to produce a 4-sided frame. I refer to this as Miter Tax.

For example, when using a 3-inch wide moulding, you'll need an extra two feet of moulding just to make up for the miter cuts.

However, in the real world, you have to consider that you may not be able to cut all four sides from the same stick. You may also find flaws that you have to cut around.

Therefore, assuming it's a moulding you will sell again in the future, it's better to have leftovers than to come up even slightly short. Leftovers can generally be viewed as money in the bank -- eventually you will probably use them.
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
4,349
I've got that same slide...
 

Andrew Lenz Jr.

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
665
I agree with Larry. I'd just make one in a spreadsheet. It'd be easy. (And faster too versus sliding a card up and down.)

Andrew
 
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Andrew Lenz Jr.

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
665
Ok, spreadsheet attached as PDF. Just made one up. It assumes 1/8" allowance and no other waste factor. Blade width, flaws, etc. will add more footage, so it's not "real world" per se . . . unless you are using lasers to cut your moulding!

Andrew
 

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Andrew Lenz Jr.

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
665
Here's another with a 10% waste factor. It yields numbers that are more realistic and are closer to the footage shown by that old paper calculator.

Andrew
 

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Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
13,639
my opinion

if buying short bundles, like most framers, the biggest waste component is ordering 14ft and getting 17ft or more.

The other 'calculations' might be fun, but don't tell much
 

Andrew Lenz Jr.

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
665
It can be helpful determining if you have enough moulding in stock. And/or pricing frames if you aren't using a computer. (Though we've been using a computer longer than most shops have been in business—29 years . . . for 20 years before that, we were hand pricing orders.)

Andrew
 

Petula

Grumbler in Training
Messages
4
Ok, spreadsheet attached as PDF. Just made one up. It assumes 1/8" allowance and no other waste factor. Blade width, flaws, etc. will add more footage, so it's not "real world" per se . . . unless you are using lasers to cut your moulding!

Andrew
Awesome, thank you!!
 

wpfay

Forum Support Team Angry_Badger
Team member
Forum Donor
Messages
10,360
How is the wast factor calculated?
It is dependent of how you buy the mouldings, what you consider to be waste, and your efficiencies of use. It can also vary from product to product, order to order, and supplier to supplier, or any combination of the three.

Chop=No waste factor
Short length=See Bob Carter's comment a few posts up. Personal experience confirms his advice.
Length/Boxes are dependent on all of the above variables I mentioned.

My rule of thumb, and I'm sure this will vary with each framer, is about a 20% waste factor when purchasing boxes. I probably average a bit less than that, but I want to cover the occasional bad box, and they are out there.
 

wvframer

Forum Support Team
Team member
Forum Donor
Messages
1,288
Twenty percent on a box is safe. And most of the time if you subtract 20% of the moulding then compare the cost to the bundle price you are still ahead. This assumes you can sell the box. Sometimes it is considerably less and that means gravy!

How soon you need to turn it is usually an individual decision. But I usually buy a box if I can turn it in a year or less and can make back the cost of the box in a month. It isn't a bargain at all if half the box is taking up space after a reasonable amount of time. I hardly ever buy length in less than a bundle. I like the cushion of having enough to cover dings and mistakes. I leave the corner on the table when I have a stick left over and nearly always sell it within a week or two.

Anything I am doubtful about I buy chopped. I like straight cuts (cut a couple of inches longer than the chop) when they are offered since I can control the corner.

I tried joins a few times, but most of my suppliers can't meet my personal standard. (I am known as "picky.")
 
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