• Welcome! You will have to register a free account, before you can access the system. If you already registered, please LOG IN. (top right)
    If you can't remember your password, CLICK HERE to reset it. If you have questions, feel free to click CONTACT US link at the bottom of this page.
Vermont Hardwoods open and shipping

How to mount a picture

DS

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Messages
126
I have a customer with a picture 21“ x 28”. No mat is wanted, so I will be using frame spacers for the air gap between picture and glass. My question is how do I mount the photo to my acid-free foam board or will the pressure caused by the points from my point driver be enough to hold it in place?
Thanks Dan
 

wvframer

Forum Support Team
Team member
Forum Donor
Messages
1,263
I would scan and print, then frame the digital print. Then, make a protective folder for the customer to store the original.

If it is that weak, the pressure from the spacer will almost certainly damage it.

Sometimes customers want things that are not in their best interests. If the original is to be framed, it should be properly mounted to rag or purified alpha-cellulose board with hinges or paper strips, then overmatted.

Modern printing methods have made it possible for the customer to have the look they want while protecting the original. Even if you have to outsource the printing, this should not add much to the cost of the job.
 

Ylva

Forum Support Team
Team member
Forum Donor
Messages
14,055
Some customers don’t want to frame the copy, they want the real thing.
I would float mount it on rag mat, then have the spacers rest on the mat. Float mount using parameter hinges.
Cut opening in mat. Slightly smaller than art. Hinge art to drop out (parameter hinges)
Put drop out including art back in opening. Tape back to keep drop out in place
 
Quality Matters At 888 Manufacturing

DS

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Messages
126
I’d like to thank everyone for their input - thanks.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
19,183
Yes, picture is very old - almost 100 yrs. old. Think press would damage it.
Old paper can be delicate unless it's rag. Often this makes hinging impossible as the hinge will pull off a layer
of paper. I would consider edge-mounting it with Mylar strips and lay a slip over it. The slip would have to be
just wide enough to cover the edge strips and allow for a narrow strip of something like linen tape to be run
along the back edge to raise the slip slightly to prevent crimping.
 

nikodeumus

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Messages
257
Some customers don’t want to frame the copy, they want the real thing.
I would float mount it on rag mat, then have the spacers rest on the mat. Float mount using parameter hinges.
Cut opening in mat. Slightly smaller than art. Hinge art to drop out (parameter hinges)
Put drop out including art back in opening. Tape back to keep drop out in place
Again, this why I joined the Grumble. This is a great technique I would never have come up with on my own. Adding it to my list of Tips and Tricks :thumbsup:
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
19,183
Not sure who started doing it like that, but it works well! Much easier than pass through hinges. Very secure and fast!
In the UK it's known widely as the Hedgehog method. Nothing to do with Hedgehogs. Apparently the guy who
pioneered it had a business called the Hedgehog Gallery. Can't remember his name. 🤔
 
Quality Matters At 888 Manufacturing

RoboFramer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,296
In the UK it's known widely as the Hedgehog method. Nothing to do with Hedgehogs. Apparently the guy who
pioneered it had a business called the Hedgehog Gallery. Can't remember his name. 🤔
Roy Rowlands and here's his method.


Not really "his" just his version of a method that's been around for a long time. If you use starch paste and Japanese tissue hinges, you can forget the bits about the release paper strips as you only put the paste where you want it but the article in general and the difference between "anchor" and "bridge" hinges in particular, is very good
 

Lafontsee

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Messages
394
Roy Rowlands and here's his method.


Not really "his" just his version of a method that's been around for a long time. If you use starch paste and Japanese tissue hinges, you can forget the bits about the release paper strips as you only put the paste where you want it but the article in general and the difference between "anchor" and "bridge" hinges in particular, is very good
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the direction of force exerted on the hinges pictured would be less strong than if you wrapped the hinge around the mount board. In the method shown, the "peel" strength of the hinge is relied on, whereas if you wrapped the hinge around the board, it would rely on the "shear" strength. Maybe it's because they are using pre-gummed tape, but even so you can create hinges that could wrap around by using two pieces of tape face-to-face with a gummed section exposed on either end.

James
 

RoboFramer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,296
You may be right and that's how I used to do it, you can also make the fallout closer to the paper size that way.
 

RoboFramer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,296
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the direction of force exerted on the hinges pictured would be less strong than if you wrapped the hinge around the mount board. In the method shown, the "peel" strength of the hinge is relied on, whereas if you wrapped the hinge around the board, it would rely on the "shear" strength. Maybe it's because they are using pre-gummed tape, but even so you can create hinges that could wrap around by using two pieces of tape face-to-face with a gummed section exposed on either end.

James
You may be right and that's how I used to do it, you can also make the fallout closer to the paper size that way.
Actually I don't think so, this is no different to S (pass-through) hinges, part of the hinge on the back of the art and the rest on the back of the mount. Also I don't think it would be a good idea to wrap the hinge around the fall out with its sharp edge.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
7,843
Actually I don't think so, this is no different to S (pass-through) hinges, part of the hinge on the back of the art and the rest on the back of the mount. Also I don't think it would be a good idea to wrap the hinge around the fall out with its sharp edge.
I agree about the sharp edge.
When I use the "wrapped hinge to fall-out" method, I take a piece of sandpaper or a burnishing bone and I wipe the sharp edge with it to just dull and round it a bit.
It still fits in the mat opening but, no sharp edge.

I have used the pass-thru hinge method many times but I like just cutting a mat on the Wizard and hinging to the fall-out.
 
Last edited:
Spring

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
7,843
We mainly use 2 Lineco tapes.
Screen Shot 2020-03-14 at 4.01.46 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-03-14 at 4.01.25 PM.png
 

RoboFramer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,296
I read, here, years ago, an issue with that lineco stuff - nylon or something, but whatever, you didn't make it yourself so you don't really know what's in it, plus the stuff you DO make yourself, per sq metre, is cheaper and, being wet-torn, is feathered on all 4 sides with better quality adhesive. For me "Tape" and "preservation/conservation" - regarding contact with artwork, is a contradiction.

More on the hinges being wrapped over the fall out - just "why" ??

Why? - Floating is a far more invasive method than normal "T" hinging with a mat as you need more, far more, hinges. You are doing more to the art work than you would need to do were it matted and the least invasive methods in that case would start with no adhesive whatsoever and then progress to hinges via no adhesive in contact, so third best.

So why, then, for floating, is there some need to use a hinge folded over something when it could be just a straight thing, attached above the perimeter and not behind it, as per normal?

Anyway, this fallout method would not be appropriate in this case, there is simply not enough margin. In this case I would advise the customer of the pitfalls and then just decide to do, or not do, whatever they want with the informed choice recorded on the order if they/I wanted to go ahead.



.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
7,843
Well, I guess...
Do it the way that you want to do it.

I prefer matting over floating but when the customer demands floating or the design company demands floating, we float mount.
The Hayaku tape is torn and is a Mulberry paper water activated hinge that is easily removable.
Screen Shot 2020-03-14 at 4.40.41 PM.png
What do I know?
I only have 51 years of experience and I work full time along with 6 others, in a 5-star shop run by a national PPFA teacher.
Opinions vary..
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
19,183
It has to be said that float mounting is not the best way to mount paper art - from a preservation perspective.
A book-mat allows the art to be handled and examined safely. Many public galleries with huge collections don't
have the room to display all the paper-based art in frames so they store them away in drawers. People can then
study them in their entirety by flipping back the window. This means the art does not need to be touched. Mats
aren't purely a cosmetic thing.
A float mounted piece has to have more attachments. Not the ideal situation. It's another fad that has crept in.
I'll admit it can look good on certain works with a crinkly edge but it does smack slightly of a gimmick.
A bit infra-dig for 'proper' art IMHO. 🙄
 
LifeSaver Software...

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
7,843
It has to be said that float mounting is not the best way to mount paper art - from a preservation perspective.
A book-mat allows the art to be handled and examined safely. Many public galleries with huge collections don't
have the room to display all the paper-based art in frames so they store them away in drawers. People can then
study them in their entirety by flipping back the window. This means the art does not need to be touched. Mats
aren't purely a cosmetic thing.
A float mounted piece has to have more attachments. Not the ideal situation. It's another fad that has crept in.
I'll admit it can look good on certain works with a crinkly edge but it does smack slightly of a gimmick.
A bit infra-dig for 'proper' art IMHO. 🙄
I totally agree!:thumbsup:
Especially when we get the "order" from a "design company" to float mount art that doesn't even HAVE a torn or decorative edge....:shrug:
And then we have to shadow box the floated art....:faintthud:
I even discuss this with these companies.
One company in particular run by a woman I used to work with and we are all great friends.
Her company brings us so much work that we have one computer just dedicated to them and we have a production list just for them separate from our regular production list.
We don't deal with their clients directly but, we just follow their orders (and add a PIA charge when we can...:cool:)
 
Last edited:

RoboFramer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,296
This is from here on the G 14 years ago and there is far more on the subject along the same lines ....


“According to two conservators I consulted, the adhesive in Hayaku hinging tape is soluble nylon, which becomes irreversible with water over time.

Hayaku is much better than most hinging alternatives, such as pressure-sensitive adhesive tapes, but it is not suitable for projects requiring the best preservation.

For preservation hinging, there's nothing as good as pure starch paste without additives.”

Japanese tissue (I only use pure kozo - hayaku certainly cannot match that) also comes in many weights and tones of colour - it’s edges, all four, can be feathered. The paste you cook for it can also be made as thick or thin as you like and you also have total control on where it goes. Nobody is saying hayaku or other pre-gummed tapes are “bad” just simply not the best.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
19,183
I'm a bit surprised that Hayaku tape is still available. I thought it had been disco'd a few years ago.

The last roll I had was decidedly un-sticky. 🙁
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Messages
30,941
They recently re-introduced it, presumably with better stick-itude. :cool: Rick
Interesting. I wonder how it works now. I tried it about ten years ago, but quit when it was unreliable. Used LJ's mulberry paper until it changed, when I switched to buying from Hiromi paper. I still use LJ's for the top hinge, (and sometimes as a hinge for heavy paper), but mostly Hiromi. Buy rice starch from LJ, and have Klucel G on order from another supplier.
 
LifeSaver Software...

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
19,183
I use float mounting mostly on 'original' prints that are done on a single piece of hand-made paper,
so that the fact that it is hand-made paper is evident. Adds a touch of gravitas. ;)

The problem (if it is a problem) is that these prints are done from a engraved/etched plate and this
compresses the center of the paper, thus altering the way it reacts to moisture. On small prints it's
a minor concern, but on large stuff it adds to the potential for waviness. This happens even when the
paper is not fixed in any way. No matter how carefully you hinge the piece it's likely to go un-flat.
Raising the float lifts the edges away from the backer which makes the undulations less apparent.
You really have to regard some works as 3D objects.
 
We’re here for you. www.wizardcutters.com
Top