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Framecon 2021

Newbie Info Overload. Are there simple answers to...

srbentley65

Grumbler in Training
Messages
4
My wife and I are just getting started in the business. We attended WCAF (thank goodness no virus at the time), and tried to learn all we can.

With all the info out there, we could really use a simple "Here are the 5 adhesives you need and what you use them for." I've tried searching for such info but can't find a succinct answer (Chris Paschke has around 30 articles on the subject alone).

I know it seems basic, but to someone new who is trying to just order stuff, we're at a standstill. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Stephen
North Georgia USA
 

Ylva

Forum Support Team
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14,197
Welcome to the G, Stephen!

If I look around in my shop and my adhesives:
Glue to join frames, I use cornerweld
Glue to glue mats together and build up with foam core: lineco acid free glue
ATG tape mostly for attaching dust covers. A lot of framers use glue for that. I can’t seem to get the hang of it and like the ATG.
 

Framar

WOW Framer
Messages
25,046
Welcome to the Grumble and to the wonderful world of framing.

If you want advice on adhesives, may I suggest Frank's Fabric Adhesive for fabric and all sorts of other jobs (like attaching dustcovers - way cheaper than ATG).

As to the rest, I like Maxim for joining frames, and here is a nice overview on adhesives from Picture Framing Magazine:

 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
19,185
I use basic PVA woodworking glue for pretty well everything I need glue for.

It's not so much the qualities of the glue that are important, more the way you use it. 😉

As well as 'wet' glue there are a whole plethora of tapes. Some water activated and some pressure activated.
What you need in this line is mostly dependant on what you need to frame. Big subject.
 

wvframer

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1,322
Keep your PVA glue from freezing temperatures, (Maxim, Cornerweld, TiteBond and even Elmers are in this group) And choose one formulated for joining frames.

Use a good brand of ATG tape, with or without a gun. The hand rolls have the adhesive running in the opposite direction from rolls for a gun. A cheap ATG tape will gum up your ATG Gun and otherwise frustrate you.

Fabric glue. This is not available just anywhere. Franks Fabric is a good quality, but there are others. It is important to know that these have a limited shelf life and unused glue should be replaced at least annually.

The rest are as-you-need them items, though if you are in good shape with cash, you might want to already have them on hand. All can be found at any hardware or home store and have a long shelf life.

Some superglue will come in handy for some things. Get several small tubes and make sure some of them are the slower-drying gels. These adhesives do not have a long shelf life once opened.

Epoxy may come in handy for some things and has a pretty good shelf life if unopened. I like the syringe style that mixes the two parts and is resealable. This is important for things like formed rod mounts.

Electrical Grade Hot melt glue. (and gun) This is not the craft version of hot melt glue. It softens at a higher temperature and can burn you if you get it on your skin. But it meets preservation standards for some mounting jobs.

As you become more experienced you will want to acquire some more specialized adhesives, usually for preservation mounting. Folks here are very generous in helping you identify the specific adhesives you might need for special jobs as well as where to purchase them.

This was enough to get me started, but others will have helpful suggestions, too.
 
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wvframer

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Ah, yes, pressure-sensitive tapes. A whole other subject. I like to have some artists tape around because it is handy for holding things in place and can be removed without leaving much residue. The adhesive will dry out if you leave it in place for days and it will be nearly as hard to remove as masking tape. I just don't let any masking tape in the door. I see it as an accident waiting to happen if you have employees.

I don't use any other tapes in actual framing, though I do have some packing tape and painters tape that I use for packaging.
 

prospero

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
19,185
***** Whatever sticky stuff you get, pleeeeeeeeeeeeese avoid spray glues. Apart from the fumes
they are really intended for temporary fixings. In some cases they can have their uses but you need
to know how to use them. They are generally unreliable for long-term applications. ☹
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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4,814
Welcome to the Grumble Stephen - you found a place that is a wonderful learning tool. I suggest that you ask a lot of questions, and from those answers do some of your own testing and see what works best for you. Everybody has products that they like personally but many may not be what you want. I like Cornerweld for moulding but I also use Maximum for some applications that I need a longer dwell time. I also use 3 different types of doublesided ATG tape, all 3M. A very aggressive tape is 969, to attach mats together 924, if I need a tape that will be installed right next to the art I use Acid Free Gold. I also like ATG Turbo Glue for attaching mats together where double sided tape won't work.
Anyway, don't hesitate asking questions, the answers may help all of us. Joe
 

Keith L Hewitt

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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1,069
Reading these replies - which BTW are all really good and helpful - The OP will be saying to his wife >>>
I never realised picture framing is one heck of a lot more than sticking 4 bits of wood together :)
And imagine the OP had started back in the days when there was no Grumble to ask
 

wpfay

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Starting out you should have:
Wood glue for joining frames. Each brand has its proponents and varieties within some brands (Titebond has 3 different wood glues). I have two kinds, one with a short open time (Maxim) and one with a longer open time (Corner Weld) used depending on need.

Fabric glue, but only if you are going to be hand covering mats. Acrylic gel medium also works well for this purpose. A skill worth learning.

I also use the ATG Turbo glue for dust covers, and not just because of the economy vs. ATG tapes. The bond is stronger, removal is cleaner, and the glue doesn't weaken over time. It is easy to use though not quite as fast as the tape. I get small squeeze bottles (2 oz.) from my veterinarian to apply the glue to the back of the frame in a 1/16" bead (tip of the hat to Jim Miller on that one).

3M 924 ATG tape for a variety of uses. I keep both the hand applied in 1/4" width, and the gun applied in 1/2" width.

Greg was right about the shelf life of fabric glue, but it also applies to all PVA glues. Don't buy more than you can use in a year, and if you are replenishing by having the glue shipped, moderate temperatures are preferred as the glue reacts to both cold and heat.
 
Quality Matters At 888 Manufacturing

GreyDrakkon

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
540
1. Wood glue ( I use white and black corner weld, but I'm not opposed to other brands, it's just convenient)

2.ATG for dust covers/tacking mats together.

3.Silicone glue for tacking down odd objects, I figure if it's safe to be used in an aquarium and not kill fish, it's likely good for a lot of objects. Plus it can be peeled off most things without causing damage if need be.
 

nikodeumus

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Messages
295
1. Wood glue ( I use white and black corner weld, but I'm not opposed to other brands, it's just convenient)

2.ATG for dust covers/tacking mats together.

3.Silicone glue for tacking down odd objects, I figure if it's safe to be used in an aquarium and not kill fish, it's likely good for a lot of objects. Plus it can be peeled off most things without causing damage if need be.
I have wondered about using fish tank Silicone myself, but have been hesitant.
Only because I don't know enough about the conservation qualities of various adhering products.
As you say, this type of sealant doesn't continually off-gas into water, so presumably would be safe in a frame.
I have made my own fish tank decorations with this silicone and it has had no adverse effects that I can tell.
But how about in direct contact with various types of materials it is attached to?
Will it discolour or otherwise damage certain types of paper, fabric, metals, etc. over many years to decades?
Has anyone got a source of study of this materials use in framing?
 

FramerCat

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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1,983
All the advice you got above is good, but if you are using silicone, electrical grade or moisture curing is better for framing. Also if you are gluing polystyrene, use cyanoacrylate glue. I like Plastibond 1500 best. Just don't get it on the face of the frame.

Ed
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
8,145
With all the info out there, we could really use a simple "Here are the 5 adhesives you need and what you use them for." I've tried searching for such info but can't find a succinct answer.
If the poor guy didn't have information overload before, he must have now. I would suggest a tasty beverage whilst trying to digest all this. :beer:
 

GreyDrakkon

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
540
But how about in direct contact with various types of materials it is attached to?
Will it discolour or otherwise damage certain types of paper, fabric, metals, etc. over many years to decades?
Has anyone got a source of study of this materials use in framing?
I don't use it with fabric because that would just be a hot mess, and sewing fabric or using Attach EZ works far better. Thus far I've only used it on solid objects (coins/medals that have no monetary value, plastic, etc) with disclosure to the customer that it's no proven to be archival. If there's question as to the value of the piece or staying power, I strongly encourage mechanical means of holding objects in place.
 
Framecon 2021

Dave

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
13,345
Welcome Aboard, Stephen!

I would highly suggest using just a few small dollops of a PVA glue (I use either Frank's Fabric Adhesive or ATG Turbo glue from Frame Specialties) to adhere mats together instead of using ATG tape. PVA is not only much less expensive, but it allows for repositioning and if you ever have to separate the mats its's a matter of pop-pop-pop and the mats will separate without destroying either the top mat or underlying mat.

I use MAXIM Blue, also from Frame Specialties both in white and black for joining frames. Quick setting, water soluable for easy clean up if it oozes.

ATG Turbo Glue for adhering items that don't require conservation standards. Also useful for adhering brass name plates. I also use either one for adhering dustcovers, but use a hot iron to set the adhesive. I've found if you don't do this they can release.

NEVER trust ANY pressure application tapes to hold the test of time.

You'll need methyl cellulose or rice or wheat paste for rice paper hinging.

Not a glue, but you'll want Lineco Edge Strips for mounting artwork. These are mylar strips that go around the perimeter of the art with no adhesive attachment to the art. https://smile.amazon.com/See-Through-Archival-Mounting-Strips/dp/B000KNNIQU/ref=smi_www_rco2_go_smi_g8217842112?_encoding=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0&ie=UTF8


For specialty 3D mounting you'll need to either sew items or use Pat's Attach-EZ (https://www.attach-ez.com/). Pat has adapted a wonderful mounting system for the framing industry and is always available for extra help. I use both her system and sewing for Jerseys and other fabrics.

For standard dry-mounting you'll want to aquaint yourself with both Kool-Tack and Mount-Cor products. Heat sensitive adhesive coated foam core and specialty boards.

So much to learn... I know, but a very exciting industry to be in. The "G" is a great resource of sharing, kind people.
 
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