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W.D Quinn Saw Co. - US Made Picture Frame Blades

Vision for 2020

bruce papier

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
825
So nobody's going to ask? How was the Christmas business this year? How do you see things developing for 2020?

Our Christmas business was pretty much nonexistent this year. Just flat as a pancake.

We're hoping for a better 2020 than 2019 was.
 

MnSue

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
1,699
ditto....
my worst in 4 years...
actually...its been slower since Labor day...wholesale picked up the slack...luckily
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
11,067
As bad as ever. Six-week stretch in August-September that hurt. Flat Christmas.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Messages
30,955
Ours was slower than usual. A big box store opened up in town this year, and we're down about 15%. But, we're glad it isn't more, and we still have plenty of work.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
7,846
I posted this in the "Talk to me about the Industry" thread.

"We just had a record day at near the end of a record month and a record year.
I'm not sure why so many people wanted to bring framing in the day after Christmas but we like it.
There were 4 of us waiting on folks designing and writing up orders at the same time.

We do nothing online but we have expanded into large capacity printing and also die bond and plexiglass mounting, laminating and laser cutting projects.
We have all 5-star reviews on three different sites and I believe that this helps bring in the business when folks are looking at shops on the internet.
Also, we received some excellent gift baskets at Christmas from customers...What could be better than that?"

We already have a huge pile of framing, retail and commercial for January.
We have 7 people working in the shop.
The commercial is off the charts.
Even the retail is crazy.
We just stretched 4 giant canvases, about 86" x 115" that if we didn't have a shop in the back that used to be an auto repair garage, we wouldn't have been able to get the canvases out of the building...
They were picked up with a large truck.

My relationship with a design company owned and run by a great lady I worked with at a previous business before she opened her own design company has really paid off.
We are great friends.
I went to her wedding years ago and I even repaired her rocker/recliner chair last year that she rocked her baby in (he's 14 now).
I just saw a new order with the name of a well known TV person.
This design company has many high profile clients in Sports, TV, Politics, etc.

Jerseys, a black light LED shadow box, custom painted frames, and it goes on and on.
The phone doesn't stop and always it's "What is your schedule and delivery time?"
I want to say "I can't frame your rush job over the phone"...."stop calling and bring it in"..:shrug:

On top of this, we also are doing installations in AZ and Nevada.

I haven't had a week off in over a year...Can you tell?...:icon9::shutup::cool:

Hopefully, this will continue into 2020 and I hope all of you folks are busy in the New Year.
 
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FramerInTraining

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Forum Donor
Messages
794
I posted this in the "Talk to me about the Industry" thread.

"We just had a record day at near the end of a record month and a record year.
I'm not sure why so many people wanted to bring framing in the day after Christmas but we like it.
There were 4 of us waiting on folks designing and writing up orders at the same time.

We do nothing online but we have expanded into large capacity printing and also die bond and plexiglass mounting, laminating and laser cutting projects.
We have all 5-star reviews on three different sites and I believe that this helps bring in the business when folks are looking at shops on the internet.
Also, we received some excellent gift baskets at Christmas from customers...What could be better than that?"

We already have a huge pile of framing, retail and commercial for January.
We have 7 people working in the shop.
The commercial is off the charts.
Even the retail is crazy.
We just stretched 4 giant canvases, about 86" x 115" that if we didn't have a shop in the back that used to be an auto repair garage, we wouldn't have been able to get the canvases out of the building...
They were picked up with a large truck.

My relationship with a design company owned and run by a great lady I worked with at a previous business before she opened her own design company has really paid off.
We are great friends.
I went to her wedding years ago and I even repaired her rocker/recliner chair last year that she rocked her baby in (he's 14 now).
I just saw a new order with the name of a well known TV person.
This design company has many high profile clients in Sports, TV, Politics, etc.

Jerseys, a black light LED shadow box, custom painted frames, and it goes on and on.
The phone doesn't stop and always it's "What is your schedule and delivery time?"
I want to say "I can't frame your rush job over the phone"...."stop calling and bring it in"..:shrug:

On top of this, we also are doing installations in AZ and Nevada.

I haven't had a week off in over a year...Can you tell?...:icon9::shutup::cool:

Hopefully, this will continue into 2020 and I hope all of you folks are busy in the New Year.
That’s awesome. I wonder what contributed to your success? Do you mind sharing?
 

Joe B

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Forum Donor
Messages
4,798
Mine was up slightly over last year, don't have the numbers yet but am judging by a quick comparison of invoices from last year. I started my holiday framing in mid October and worked solid until my last pick-up at 2:00 pm on the 24th. I still have a about 7 or 8 orders that I promised by Tuesday.
 

wpfay

Forum Support Team Angry_Badger
Team member
Forum Donor
Messages
10,360
2019 will probably go onto the books as the best year ever. Unlike Neil we are just a 2 person operation, but like the business he works for we have enjoyed the benefits of commercial and corporate work for well over a decade. 2019 just vectored a lot of work from a lot of sources all at the same time.
That said, Retail work for Christmas was almost non-existent. Half of it I did for myself for gifts.
My vision for 2020 is murky. I have no idea just how the politics of this upcoming election year will effect business, but they will.
Retirement is on the horizon, so these things don't bother me as much as they once did.
 

Rick Granick

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
18,874
I've been reasonably busy, but it definitely isn't like the Christmas Rush season of old. I know there are some businesses Like Niel's or Medi's or Mo's that are very busy, but overall I sense that the industry is still shrinking. I think this goes along with the retail environment in general, and the focus of millennials and younger on experiences rather than things (unless those things take batteries and have screens). It is reflected in some of the major changes going on with vendors and in the roster for the trade show. That said, I'm in a similar position to Wally regarding the glide path to retirement, so I'm not worried about my business. I own my building, and have no debts. There is a bunch of new residential construction going on in the area around my shop which has been a good source of new customers as the boomers downsize, and I have also picked up former customers of bygone shops. After 42 years in business I have a number of second generation customers, and even some third-gens. So I'll keep going for a while, as long as it is still enjoyable and I can still do it physically. So far, so good on those points.

As for the election, history shows that elections are never good for business, because people don't like uncertainty. No matter which way the election goes, we are all in for some big changes in the years ahead, with coping and adapting skills being paramount. Not to get too political, but I would just say that if things go one way over the other, we all may be looking back fondly at our current scenario as "the good old days".

:cool: Rick
 
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bruce papier

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
825
Our business suffered in 2019 because two large companies for which we had been doing framing for years suddenly just stopped getting things framed. It was no fault of ours (I checked to make sure). The higher ups just decided framing was an unnecessary expense.
 

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
7,846
That’s awesome. I wonder what contributed to your success? Do you mind sharing?
As far as our relationship with the design company, we've been framing for them for about 8 years now.
I have a long time relationship with the owner and she has 6 designers who work for her company.
They have an amazing studio with frame and mat samples and they also sell artwork.
They also have many high end contacts even out of state for framing design.

Designers actually come to their studio and work out the framing with the designers and the clients.

What the design company doesn't have is a frame shop or their own installers.
They don't have to order materials or stock anything or build the frames.
That's where we come in.
We are separate companies and what we do is give them pricing that works for the design company and they make a profit and we make a profit.
We don't have to sell or spend any time with their clients, we just fill the orders and get paid.

The only caveat is that we can't put our labels on the framing or the designer clients might come to us directly and that's OK.
"One hand washes the other and both hands wash the face".
We all do well and it works in our situation.

Also, we have 7 people working.
Each person has a specialty, whether it is mounting, laminating, printing, laser cutting, designing and framing.
But, a few of us, like me, are the "utility infielders" in the group.
We work and fill in wherever we are needed.:cool:

As far as the retail, it's word of mouth, excellent reviews and longevity in the business and the area.:thumbsup:
 
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tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
11,067
And a strong local economy helps, too.

Thanks, Neil.
 

FramerInTraining

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Forum Donor
Messages
794
As far as our relationship with the design company, we've been framing for them for about 8 years now.
I have a long time relationship with the owner and she has 6 designers who work for her company.
They have an amazing studio with frame and mat samples and they also sell artwork.
They also have many high end contacts even out of state for framing design.

Designers actually come to their studio and work out the framing with the designers and the clients.

What the design company doesn't have is a frame shop or their own installers.
They don't have to order materials or stock anything or build the frames.
That's where we come in.
We are separate companies and what we do is give them pricing that works for the design company and they make a profit and we make a profit.
We don't have to sell or spend any time with their clients, we just fill the orders and get paid.

The only caveat is that we can't put our labels on the framing or the designer clients might come to us directly and that's OK.
"One hand washes the other and both hands wash the face".
We all do well and it works in our situation.

Also, we have 7 people working.
Each person has a specialty, whether it is mounting, laminating, printing, laser cutting, designing and framing.
But, a few of us, like me, are the "utility infielders" in the group.
We work and fill in wherever we are needed.:cool:

As far as the retail, it's word of mouth, excellent reviews and longevity in the business and the area.:thumbsup:
Thank you. That sounds like a great setup.
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
4,349
We have our art sales tied in with our framing sales, and 2019 was a considerable decline from 2018, until a customer bought an uber-expensive painting, which made up for that difference almost exactly.

This first week of 2020 we've taken in more orders than the first week of 2019 and 2018, but who knows if that trend will continue. I think that as the election gets into full swing, that there will be lumps and bumps, but then after that's done, an upswing.
 

i-FRAMER

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Messages
819
We were about the same as the year before. But this year we are upscaling and will increase staff and revenue.
 

artfolio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
2,587
It always puzzled me why it happens but I noticed here in Australia that whenever an election, State or Federal, was in the wind customers backed away and slammed their wallets shut until the dust settled. The way your American election process drags on for a year it would be a nightmare if that happened there.
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
4,349
I think its more that the mood of the country is generally not happy during elections. You could take that and apply it across major disasters too, I believe, but anything that makes people wake up / go to bed feeling unhappy will keep them from spending. Elections are just the most predictable of those things.
 

MnSue

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
1,699
Well, my "gates" have reopened....I was down to 2 orders last week....and multiples have come in since. I'm very thankful.
 
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Terry Hart cpf

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
1,983
42 years in business and the trend has been generally downward for a number of years now here but I'm in the same boat as Rick, Wally & some others. Not too concerned as I own my building & enjoy working mostly on my own now at my own pace. I also sell art supplies and really these days I get more enjoyment from that. Next phase is to get back to doing more art myself. It must be rough starting out new in the framing buisiness these days.
 

Paul Cascio

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
4,638
I hear from a lot of people throughout the industry, mostly former students. The consensus seems to be that there isn't one. Some had banner years and others are lamenting 2019. My theory is that the framing industry has cycles that correspond to each generation. The problem is that Millennials have kind of screwed things up -- they marry later, buy their first house later, and have children later. The good new is that they are now beginning to fulfill their responsibilities, which could lead to a significant upturn for a number of industries, including ours.
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
11,067
Millennials keep their art on their phones.
 
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cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
4,349
A few times when getting a home mortgage they would ask about the unpredictable income, and I noticed a trend that I would not otherwise have noticed. Every election year, the sales went down that year. As well as every second year (in between election cycles). Having said that (since we're in an election year now) two years ago was very good, but I think that's when the tax cuts came in, and gave my customers more spending money.
 

cjmst3k

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Messages
4,349
Quality Matters At 888 Manufacturing

Ylva

Forum Support Team
Team member
Forum Donor
Messages
14,091
2019 was good for me. I expect a horrible year this year although so far January has been great. Election year sucks. Nothing I can do about it.
We own the building, both my husbands and mine are in it.
Without that, I would not have survived 4 years ago.

Over 3 years ago, I cut full-time framing to part-time framing. Shop is only open 3 days now. It was scary. However, sales have been going up and my time is more effectively spent.

I took 2 part time jobs, one in payroll, think ADP but a smaller company and one at TJ maxx.
I learned a lot of new things, got a different perspective and I actually like the diversity. Okay, I also like the steady paycheck.
So this year, I am less worried than 4 years ago.

Once we are done with having kids in college, i will spend more time framing again. In about 5 years from now. Lol
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
11,067
Great hustle, Ylva! Gotta be some light at the end of the tunnel. Kids at school, now there's one of life''s speed bumps.
 

Ylva

Forum Support Team
Team member
Forum Donor
Messages
14,091
10 years of college payments, 2 of them with 3 in college at the same time. We are halfway there, that is a flicker of light, right?
This year will be tough, our last year of 3 in college coming up, during an election year. Oh well. I just got a huge promotion at the payroll company so that certainly helps.

So my vision for 2020 is surviving.
 

shayla

WOW Framer
Messages
30,955
Over 3 years ago, I cut full-time framing to part-time framing. Shop is only open 3 days now. It was scary. However, sales have been going up and my time is more effectively spent.
A few years ago, we went from being open five days a week to four. I still meet people any day of the week, by appointment, and it's been a great change. I still get behind, though. Last week, the thought of being open three came to mind and I brushed it off. But it could be a good idea. I still see so many when we're closed, but it allows more latitude for rummaging around and focusing on detailed projects. I also visit my dad at the nursing home five days a week, and the time flexibility helps.

I agree about election years being weird. January's been busier than December, but they do tend to be slow. We also have a street bridge being replaced, from June through October.
 

tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
11,067
15 years of university payments, and hopefully it all ends in April, but two of the three kids may carry on to post-grad programs, in which case they can at least break even. What kills us is cars. Living in the sticks means that we need 5 between May and September, and breakdowns suck. The Fusions have turned out to be incredibly unreliable. We've switched to Chevs.
 
Spring

neilframer

PFG, Picture Framing God
Messages
7,846
I'm still working 5 and sometimes 6 days a week.
It keeps me going.:thumbsup:

I have always had Pontiacs (they're gone) Chevys and now Buicks.
I just bought a 2003 Buick Lesabre Custom to replace my 1994 Buick Park Avenue.
I have never owned a new car.
The Park Avenue still has only 131,000 miles and the paint and body are still excellent but the fabric is starting to go.

The 2003 is in mint condition 59,000 miles one owner from a Sun City retired guy.
It even has a special Arizona pinstripe down the side.
cea6419569a24d9ba6c34337654c9c28.jpg 695ccf66bce446259d916c3c03798c34-1.jpg


This is a $30,000 car that I bought for $3500 Carfax and Original owners manual included.
It has more features than I ever need....lumbar support adjustment?
140 MPH speedo and full gauges including tachometer.
Factory aluminum wheels and brand new Michelin tires.
I don't really need a rear view mirror that tells me what direction I'm going.
It has On Star.....not using it.
The radio tells me what band I'm listening to and what the song title is.
It has cassette and CD in the radio.
I could go on and on....

I like to buy one owner low mileage cars only from private parties and I've had great luck with this, but I'm a car guy and I do most of my own repairs and maintenance.
 
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tedh

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
11,067
Uh Paul: kids at school rule out Teslas.

Perhaps ten years out, when the kids lol pay us back lol.
 

David Hewitt

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Messages
343
Nice car Paul.

Dave Ramsey for those wanting to be debt free.

As for car dependability, we have had Toyotas, 1st one 225000 miles, 2nd one 215000 miles( hybrid), 3rd 100000 miles (hybrid) sold it only because we wanted a SUV. Bought a 2020 Toyota SUV hybrid, expecting same reliability.
We have not had one mechanical problem in 17 years and 540000 miles. All were in excellent condition and totally reliable when sold or traded in.
Yes I have an American vehicle, Ford F150 love it. It replaced a Ford F250 that I had for 18 years.
 
Framecon

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
13,639
;) my first 'real' new car was a Porsche when I was 24. Problem was two folks you really don't want to know well were a Dentist and a Porsche mechanic. from memory it seems like every 3 months with air cooled engine needed to reset valves.
4 doors? I had to get rid of that car when children also came along
quick story on my love for 'neat' cars.
PHX has several great car auctions and went looking for interesting one year. You pre-register with 'credit limit' to ensure you don't bid beyond your means. One of 'fun' cars was James Bond DB5. MY bid was opening bid; within 2 seconds the next bid exceeded my 'limit' :). BUT i had bragging rights
always enjoyed my cars
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
13,639
at that auction, i was looking for '62 Corvette. A friend was selling/trading AC Cobra 427. To sweeten the deal he 'threw in' a 62 Corvette but buyer wasn't interested in dealing
another fun story
when daughter turned 16 we promised her a car. A neighbor restored old Mustangs and he had a 62 1/2 first edition red convertible. we thought what a great fun car. since we were both car guys, he said this one wasn't show condition and price was really fair. We thought we ought to let her 'test'
drive it. They were pretty basic then and when she sat in driver seat, she looked at crank on door panel and asked 'what is that'? The kid had never seen a manual window crank

she passed
 

Bob Carter

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Messages
13,639
correct!! what was i thinking? that car had a steel dashboard, A/C bolted to bottom of dashboard-real 'third world'
this will kill you-he had a 'Bullit' version that he was fully restoring that was probably low 6 figures then (also beyond 'my credit limit :rolleyes:)
so many toys, so little garage space
 
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