Grumble, and I know you've been there...

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johnny

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 7, 2004
Posts
3,601
Loc
Ohio
"Can you frame this as small as possible?"
(customer moves the frame sample in so about 1/2" of matting shows.)

"I'd suggest a minimum of 2 1/2" to keep a minumum proportion."
(moves out frame to about 1 3/4 to try and trick her)

"Ya, I'd like it as small as possible."
(moves in frame to like 1/4" - jokes on me)

"No, I won't do that."

Etcetera

But I had a new sensation out there this time, haggling mat width with this nice lady. Because this time I can come on here and type it out, and you guys all know all about it, and *poof* goes the frustration.
 
Sometimes - more-and-more, actually - I won't discuss the mat width during the design session unless they ask. I'll just do what I think is right.

Many of those same people who think they want a 1" mat will rave about the wall models with the 4-5" mats.

And I don't think I've ever had anyone pick up a completed order and say, "Holy ****! Look at the size of that mat!"

If they ask, I tell them my insurance carrier won't allow me to cut a mat less than 2-1/2" wide. My fingers would get too close to the blade.
 
Yeah, it happens to all of us – usually they want to save a few bucks, I think, by keeping the overall dimensions as small as possible.

… then, of course, with that 1/2” mat, they choose a 3 inch moulding. Great design choice, lady!

Go figure!
 
I think a lot of times they do it because they think they are saving money which of course they really aren't. But, I think when they are looking at it on the table they aren't getting the correct view as they would when it is hanging on a wall. I think thier untrained eye thinks it looks like too much looking at it on the table. We know better from our experience, hence the tug of war, they push it in and we bring it out.

Either way, ultimately they get their little dinky mat if they insist......
 
Or they tell you that the finished piece has to fit between a rock and a hard place and you have to convince them to move either the rock or the hard place or hang it somewhere else.
 
Then there are folks who want a realy small moulding.

"Don't you have anything smaller than that?"

"Smaller than 1/4 inch? NO, NO, I DONT!" :mad:
 
Ummmm, Ron and I posted at exactly the same time. What are the odds Ron? You in Wisconsin, I am in Colorado, we were typing in the same thread at the same time and actually hit "send" at the same time. Somehow, this makes me feel closer to you................
 
LMAO Ron - fingers too close to the blade.

Framanista, I like when they keep picking out fillets for the frame.
 
Ron, I did have one lady say "Oh my god, look at all that mat!!" After making sure I understood her concern, (I still think it looked quite good!) I threw it on the Wizard and put a v-groove on it for her. (N/C of course.) She was thrilled. I guess that's one way to get a free design element!
 
Well, since I've posted <strike> 9004,</strike> 9005 times, I guess the odds are increased.

At least we didn't say the same thing. That would freak me out.

Edit: See, it happened again!
 
johnny, for a little while I had a photo inside a jersey shadow box that had a fillet reversed as a framem with mylar encapsulating the photo so it looked kind of like glass. I had one lady that insisted that if I did it once I could do it for her and she didn't mind if I used mylar instead of glass!
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Originally posted by johnny:
"Can you frame this as small as possible?"
(customer moves the frame sample in so about 1/2" of matting shows.)

"I'd suggest a minimum of 2 1/2" to keep a minumum proportion."
(moves out frame to about 1 3/4 to try and trick her)

"Ya, I'd like it as small as possible."
(moves in frame to like 1/4" - jokes on me)
Click to expand...
This happened to me today. Lady wanted to frame a small watercolor painting. Image is about 9 x 9. She insisted on only an inch wide mat, but wanted to open the image size to 10.5 x 10 (fortunately there's enough paper around it so we can open up the image). I was able to convince her to make the mat 1 3/4 inches in the end. But it was a tough sell.... :mad:
 
Originally posted by Ron Eggers:
If they ask, I tell them my insurance carrier won't allow me to cut a mat less than 2-1/2" wide. My fingers would get too close to the blade.
Click to expand...
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And here I was the one with the creative line: "The smallest mat exposer that our mat cutter can see, is 3". That is why the samples are all 3", so we can cut the most amount of samples out of each board....."

As for "Don't you have a smaller or more narrower thin tiny moulding?", and I love that question.
That is when I plop down my most expensive moulding sample: Sterling silver with a 3/16" face and 47/64" under the curled lip. Four-six months to have it made, then shipped from Germany and $94 per united inch, plus shipping. "How big did you want that mat?" Of course I do have a cheaper on from Amsterdam that only takes 3-4 months and is only $87/inch but jeez it's almost a full 3/8" wide in the face and a full INCH under the lip....
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:D
That's about the time we start getting serious about what a "Normal" frame should look like
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baer
 
Johnny, you're right about this being the place to dump your grumbles. Spouses seldom understand what you're on about and first dates NEVER do. But everyone here has played the tug-o-war game with the corner samples.

Lots of pieces don't need to be matted. In that case I tell the customer that no mat at all would look better than a skimpy one.

Then I show them a stacked frame. (Muhwahaha)

Normally, I don't discuss mat width with customers unless they bring the subject up.

Customer: How much mat will be showing?

Me: 6 inches

Customer: Isn't that awfully wide?

Me: The lip of the frame will cover 1/4"

Customer: Oh. That's okay then.

Kit
 
I will have to say though, that since we've fazed out the 3" mat samples for 4" ones, it's been easier to get people to go for more appropriate-sized mats.
Before, people would scoot the frame sample from the edge of the 3" mat sample so that one inch would show. Now, people move it from the edge of the 4" sample so that 2" would show.
What we need now are 6" mat samples...
 
I would NEVER say this to a customer, but I just framed a small poem for myself and put a double 1 1/2" mat on it. It looks fine. But I sell the 3" and 4" wide ones every day. And occasionally a 1" as well. I figure that it is, indeed, their dime. As long as I don't have to cut the print to fit it in the frame, then let them be happy.

But my line is "Let's just see what the computer recommends. Ah,the computer recommends a 4" mat, but we could go down to 3 1/2" or even 3" considering the scale of the art."
 
Originally posted by johnny:
"Can you frame this as small as possible?"
(customer moves the frame sample in so about 1/2" of matting shows.)
Click to expand...
I wish I could take credit for this line (it's one of our fellow Grumbler's). I also, eagerly, await the opportunity to use it:

"Certainly we can ... just how cheap do you want it to look?"
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If they want a 1/2" or less mat, I will start showing them what we can do with fillets as a substitute. Usually they get excited about the design alternatives. There are some wide fillets that will cover a white edge on a photo, but look MUCH nicer than a skinny mat.

It changes from a tug of war on mat width to a counter covered with fillet samples.
 
just how cheap do you want it to look?
Click to expand...
I think that was Janet Lowrey's signature.

Ellen, when you consult your computer for design specifications, be sure to refer to it as "Hal." If you customer is of the appropriate generation, that should get a reaction and very little argument.
 
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