putting glass on oil paintings

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indy

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so, what is everyone's thought on putting glass on oil paintings? I never do because i thought the canvas and oil paints need to "breathe" not literally, of course. :D

Actually i have seen glass done on one oil painting. the painting was done on a canvas board and we had put mats on it so the paints weren't directly touching the artwork.

and what would happen over time to the painting if there was glass on it. would the paints begin to mold or what.

the U.P. ROCKS!!
 
Apparently this is sometimes done, especially in museum settings. The important thing is to have an airspace bewteen the glazing (which could be UV Acrylic) and the oil. I've seen oils fitted with the glazing between the frame and a liner.

Visually, I'd prefer the canvas without glazing but sometimes there are protection issues.

Perhaps the notion of oils "breathing" - both from the front and back - comes from the practice of spraying and framing the oil before it has fully cured. I understand it takes more than a few days or weeks for an oil to cure.
 
I think the curing rate on oils can run to a few years. The use of glass on oil paintings also seems to be more common in some parts of Europe. I've noticed on the British version of Antiques Roadshow that oil paintings are usually framed with glass there.
 
I think if you check in the search section for this topic under ORTON you will get all the information you could possible want.
BUDDY
 
i guess i am helpless i cant find that orton topic about oil paintings and glass.

I'll try again later on tonite when i have more time.

i will get to the bottom of this!!!!
 
Always use a spacer if you are glazing the oil.It will stick to the glass in time otherwise.I don,t like glass on oil paintings but it is not uncommon for it to be done.

I was under the impression that oil paint takes many many years before it is fully cured.I guess it depends on climate and stuff though.I was always told to wait at least six months before varnishing an oil painting as well.
 
Excuse my Paraphraseing the all mighty Orton,but what i think he said was that he did it all the time. He accomplished this by attaching thicker rag board strips to the side of the work at a hight that is higer than the tallest paint and then he rest the glazing on the strips.This conversation was in a very old thread but a referance to it is :

Orton
SGFM, Supreme Grumbler
Member # 221

posted 02-08-2001 10:52 AM
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Most of the objections to glazing over textile work, and for that matter, oil paintings, is historical intertia.
Apart from the artist's requirement for aesthetics, glazing protects the art - period.

Properly installed, glazing will reduce damage potential from light, air pollution, dust, insects, hand-touching, and yes, from people sneezing all over it.

Glazing over oils and textiles, for the purposes of protection, is recommended by CCI.

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Posts: 623 | From: Midland, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Apr 99 | IP: Logged

If I remember correctly his opinion and that of his conservetor friends is that most oil dries much quicker than we think and breathing is for living things not inanimate paintings or needle work.
I also couldn't find the thread but I know it is there maybe because it is so old. Perhaps Orton himself can remember where it is located or one of our computer Gurus can dig it up.
BUDDY
 
good thanks BUDDY,

So, from reading all these replies i am getting to the understanding that nothing will happen to the oil paints when they are under glass for a long period of time. It would be in a more protected environment, really.

My thought, i guess, was the paint would mold or something.

But asthetically it looks better to not put glazing on oil paintings.
 
Generally, in the U.S., we do not put glazing on oil paintings. Some museums do, world wide, for damage prevention, and many of them use acrylic glazing for this purpose. If you are going to use glazing on an oil painting, be sure that it does not touch the paint anywhere, and be sure that the oils have some where to outgas. Oils take several years to throughly dry.
 
Just got back from a frantic run thru Art Basel in Miami this afternoon. Art - W O W ! ! !

Framing W O W ! W O W ! ! !

Lots of glass in front of oils/acrylics on canvas B U T huge amounts of space between art and glazing crated by linen liners and everything else you could think of. And lots of VERY, VERY expensive glass. Soooooo yummy.

For results in the Macfaddens - Best framing in show; get warped.

P
 
I just had clients come in with a 20 x 24 oil on canvas oil that they bought in Switzerland, to have me install a protective backing and Museum glass.

Ever since I showed them Museum glass, they now use it on all of their better art. This is the first time they have asked me to place glass on an oil painting, but other clients have also asked about this practice.

They claim their New York apartment is very bright from sunlight and they want to protect the oil the best they can. I made sure they knew not to hang the painting in a place where it would receive direct sun and that I would provide an air gap. I also asked about the value of the painting, because I would be concerned about the possibility of damage from broken glass. They said they paid $1100 for the painting and they were not concerned about it.

Does Museum glass come shatter resistant? I am not sure they would go for shatter-resistant glass if it did not have the AR coating. I can see the benefits of glass on oils to help reduce exposure to pollution, but how susceptible are oils to light damage? There must be many factors including quality of paint, thickness, glazing, and varnishes. How about acrylics on canvas?
 
less,

I just purchased a piece of "museum" glass from a company in NY called Schott Glass. It is a laminated glass with an ar coating. The UV block is in the laminate. I had to have a piece 48" x 48" which TV doesn't make. The price was a bit of a shock, but the customer paid. So there are some sources for a shatter resistant glass if you're customer is willing to pay!
 
Less, Put Cyro's OP-3 PP-99 on it. You can't even see that the stuff is there. It provides the UV protection, and is certainly shatter resistant. I use it all of the time. I buy it in 4'x 8' sheets, and the price is comparable to good glass.
 
Thank Jim and others,

Susan, P-99 or PP-99? I believe P-99 is a non-glare product, not anti-reflective, which means it has similar characteristics to non-glare glass. This product is not good enough, especially when spacing it from the art.


I am most definitely going to check out Schott. Sounds like the perfect product, and yes I believe I can sell it.

I also just went to Cyro's site to do some reading and they have an article about glazing from FBN. They quoted Ranes and Eggers. Cool. Congratulations guys. I guess I should have read the article when I received my copy in the mail. Duh! Anyway it looks like Cyro has a cool new product (not in the article) with anti-reflective technology, but it does not appear to be available to picture framers yet. You can bet it won't be long. If this product comes with U.V. protection, it will certainly put a dent in the picture framing glass business.
 
PP-99 is Cyro's non-glare product, but when it is on a picture, you can't see it. I'm sitting here with two pictures right over my computer, and both look as if there is no glazing in either one. If you get the OP-3 PP-99, it is both non-glare and UV protected. As to where to get the stuff, I buy it from a local plastics distributor. Call Cyro's 800 number, and they will tell you who are the distributors in your area. I use this on shadow boxes, as well, because most of mine are military medals, and will be shipped all over the world. I stand by the stuff. They've also introduced it in a thicker version for larger items, so you don't have to worry about the flex problem. Rmajohns email me, and I will give you my contact for the stuff in Atlanta. I doubt that there is anyone closer to you than that, depending on what part of Tennessee you are in.
 
Here in South West Cornwall, England, a lot of the oils we frame are placed behind glass and also have a paper backing over the stretcher bars on the back.

We have a particularly damp climate with salt air, plus a lot of the houses/cottages still have open fires burning logs and or coal.

We have seen many a 'non glazed' oil paintings needing a lot of TLC by a restorer to remove what is effectively 'nicotine tarring'.

As stated elsewhere in this thread, as long as there is an air gap - we use 5mm Frame spacers - then there should be no problem, and the colours will be preserved.
 
I've never used Acrylite P-99, but I'm looking at a sample I got from Lois Bauby at her acrylics class in Atlanta. Compared with Tru Vue etched reflection control, there is much less diffusion at a given distance from the art, though it is not a coated product like Tru Vue A/R. It might be fair to say it's more of a micro-etched effect, like Image Perfect. This opinion is based on a very un-scientific visual test.

Perhaps this isn't the right glazing product for Less' oil, but I think it might be worth considering for anyone who needs a light-weight, shatter resistant, glare-reducing product that is also available in UV filtering.

Larson-Juhl carries this, at least in some distribution centers.

BTW, it IS P-99, not PP-99.

There is a potential for some confusion because Cyro makes an AR Acrylite, which is abrasion-resistant, whereas Tru Vue makes an A/R, which is anti-reflective.
 
Since paintings, like other works of art are
inanimate, none "breathes". The extent to which
recently painted oils should be ventilated will
vary with the constitution and thickness of the
paint layer, but as others have said, oil continues to cure for years. If glass is placed
in front of the oil, and there is a concern about
gases coming out of the paint film, this concern
can be addressed with space left around the edges
or the painting. The varnish layer on the oil
does serve to protect its surface, but many artists prefer to leave their oils unvarnished.
Such paintings can benefit from a glazing material
that has been well-spaced in front of the painting. This is much more necessary when an
acrylic painting is being framed. Acrylic emulsion
paints leave a film that is full of holes (where
the water was when the paint was fluid) and
keeping dust out of those holes is a major headache.

Hugh
 
Hugh,

I am not sure I got the answer I am looking for.
Varnish helps protect the paint from pollution, but does it protect against light damage. Are oil paintings susceptible to light damage. Do the pigments fade? I know there are many factors to consider, but should we be concerned about hanging oils in a bright room?

This oil painting is approximately 50 years old and varnished. This painting will not get direct sun, but will hang in a very bright room. Does installing U.V. protective glazing help protect the painting or is the varnish considered adequate? I was not sure if I should discourage the client from placing Museum glass on their painting. I don't want to waste their money.

I have a couple of other questions. Many of my artists do not varnish their paintings due to their concern about allowing enough time for the painting to dry.

Is it more difficult to clean an unvarnished painting? Can you talk a little about this and how conservators know whether an artist uses glazes and how conservators know when to stop cleaning?
 
Hi Less,

Yes, oil and acrylic paintings fade.

How badly will depend on the artist's palette and, of course the light intensity. Earth colors are much more stable than dyes, but both are used in oils. Unless you know the palette, and then research your colors, it's impossible to say how sensitive your clients work is.

There are lots of different kinds of varnishes - I suppose a dirty discolored varnish would block light and so slow down fading, but a varnish won't prevent fading. As far as I'm aware, any UV absorbers that might be put in a varnish are included to protect the varnish, not the paint layer.

UV filtering glass/plexi slows fading down, but won't prevent it.

Like anything else, oils/acrylics will last longer when displayed under low light levels.

Rebecca

[ 02-04-2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Rebecca ]
 
Thanks Rebecca,

So, the client was astute requesting the extra protection and Less was correct with his advice and making a few extra buckaroos.

Now I can say that I consulted with two conservators. Don’t clients just love when we go the extra mile?
 
Ron,
You said that " Compared with Tru Vue etched reflection control, there is much less diffusion at a given distance from the art...".
So, in your opinion P 99 is batter. O.K. Can you also check and compare the diffusion of those two glazing materials depending on the angle you look at the art? It's very irritating that when that angle becomes around 20 degrees more or less from the normal (90 degrees) the art seems like in a haze.

Bork
 
I'd have to say that, viewed from an angle, there is some hazy diffusion with the P-99, but - again - much less pronounced than with the Tru Vue reflection-control. I was viewing text with side-by-side samples of both products.

I'd strongly encourage anyone who's interested in this product to contact Cyro and see if you can get an acrylic sample set. Then you can judge for yourself.
 
I'd have to say that, viewed from an angle, there is some hazy diffusion with the P-99, but - again -much less pronounced than with the Tru Vue reflection-control. I was viewing text with side-by-side samples of both products.
Can't agree more with Ron.
Having compared for a wile various framed arts glazed with the P-99 and with the Tru Vue reflection control glass I've made the same conclusion. When viewing an art not at the normal angle of 90 degrees, the diffusion of the image of an art glazed with P-99 is less. More over, the sharper the angle of observation the more is the difference in diffusion from those two glazing materials. I mean, the advantage of P-99 is more noticeable at sharper angles.

Bork
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I went to see a Vermeer exhibit at the Met last year and was truly surprised to see that all of the oils were behind musum glass with what appeared to be 1/4" Arlo spacers. Guess I have to get out more, huh?
 
I went to see a Vermeer exhibit at the Met last year and was truly surprised to see that all of the oils were behind musum glass with what appeared to be 1/4" Arlo spacers.
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Unfortunately, we saw this a lot with the Old Masters Originals in Europe, and when I asked about it, I was told that it was the fear of vandalism or theft. They are putting a lot of glass or acrylic over them just to keep some idiot from damaging them. It's a real shame.
 
One issue that may come up in a relatively "fresh" oil painting is the ghost image that could appear on the underside of the glass as the oil film cures/ages/polymerizes/whatever. I'm sure you've all seen this phenomenon with a variety of prints, as well as oil pastels.
 
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